Ryuji Learns Akari Hasegawa's "Dashi Curry Loaded with Aromatics": An Oil-Free Dish That Wins You Over with Fragrance

Hasegawa chose "Dashi Curry Loaded with Aromatics." In Hasegawa's words, it is the recipe "most opposite" to the image of Ryuji's cooking, and Ryuji agrees they would "never make it." It is a curry made without oil: ground chicken and Japanese leeks are steamed in sake, simmered in dashi, and eaten with a heap of aromatics on top. Between cooking steps, the two kept talking about their approaches to recipes and about sharing cooking on social media.

The main ingredients are just two: ground chicken and Japanese leeks. The ground meat is chicken breast and chicken thigh in a 1:1 ratio. Hasegawa explains that the basic idea is to eat something light, but breast alone is too dry and thigh alone is too rich, so it is "half and half." Only the white part of the leeks is used. Ryuji said they had never eaten a leek curry.

For the dashi, Hasegawa says they have recently been using salt-free dashi packs. However, they stressed that "anything goes" with this recipe. You can use shiro dashi and reduce the salt, or simmer bonito flakes directly in water. When Ryuji said that on their own channel they often make dashi with bonito flakes and umami seasoning, Hasegawa answered, "Of course." The explanation is that the most important thing in this recipe is chopping the aromatics, so the dashi can be whatever you like.

Hasegawa says they created this curry "in order to chop the toppings." The reason given is a feeling that "a life where you're chopping aromatics is, no matter how you look at it, a rich life, isn't it?" When you're worn out, you don't feel like chopping aromatics, but if you chop them even when worn out, you can create the illusion that "maybe I'm living richly." Hasegawa wanted to create a recipe that, emotionally, makes you feel you're "living well." Ryuji was surprised, having imagined Hasegawa as more laid-back, and spoke highly of this way of thinking.

The aromatics used as toppings are green shiso, myoga, and ginger. You can chop the scallions yourself, but since there is a lot else to chop, it's fine to buy pre-cut ones. You can also add bonito flakes for extra umami. What Hasegawa particularly recommended is shibazuke, which they say makes the dish look "overwhelmingly cute." According to Hasegawa, it gives the dish a look you'll want to post on social media, and it makes it taste better too.

Hasegawa also said that, in fact, their recipes aren't all that fixated on "whether it's delicious." Instead, they put effort into how good a mood people can be in while cooking, and into getting people to enjoy chopping. Among so-called easy recipes it's on the more labor-intensive side, but once you've chopped the aromatics and leeks, the rest is ground meat, so there isn't much work. Ryuji said, "Akari-san's recipes are super easy, yet deep," and Hasegawa replied, "Because they're easy, I have people put in effort somewhere."

Hasegawa says they really want people to cut the leeks by hand. Ryuji added, "If you put them through a Bunbun Chopper, the fibers break down and the flavor changes."

According to Hasegawa, this dashi curry is the recipe that led to their recipe book and made many people aware of them. In Ryuji's case, the first thing to go viral on social media was a recipe for daikon karaage. Their followers grew from there, and Ryuji looks back: "I got carried away and called myself a culinary researcher, and then I became a culinary researcher."

After qualifying as a registered dietitian, Hasegawa spent a period as an assistant to Ariga-sensei, who has also appeared on Recipe Trade. Ryuji was surprised, not having known this. Hasegawa says that because this is the era of social media, they felt nothing would come of it unless they put out their own recipes, or something like "this is my philosophy," so they kept posting alongside their assistant work. Ryuji said they sense Ariga's influence in Hasegawa's cooking, and Hasegawa replied, "She's my mentor."

Ryuji follows other cooks' content closely, to the point of saying they don't think any other culinary researcher looks at other people's recipes as much as they do. Hasegawa is the same, and had even seen Ryuji's recent chicken and sake pasta. Hasegawa said that watching Ryuji's cooking gradually become more stripped-down and natural made them think, "Maybe what I've been doing wasn't wrong after all."

Ryuji acknowledges that they've recently been trying recipes without umami seasoning. Their position is that whether you use it or not, it's fine as long as it tastes good. Hasegawa, on the other hand, rarely uses umami seasoning, and had explained the reason as "because it's cool." Ryuji says that when they heard this, they thought, "I really like this person." According to Ryuji, cooking without umami seasoning gives a "sense of real skill" and feels good. Ryuji remarked that this is consistent with Hasegawa's idea of feeling good while cooking.

The conversation also turned to how both of them enjoy "analyzing" cooks. Ryuji revealed that they sometimes talk for about three hours with an acquaintance, Onishi, about cooks who are currently active, and that analyzing Hasegawa is the most fun of all. It starts with "What do you make of that?" and always ends with the conclusion, "Akari-san really is amazing." According to Ryuji, Hasegawa's fans are people who "believe in Akari," and that is where this video's title comes from. At the stage where you're just cutting ingredients, you can't see what kind of curry it will become, so "you can't do it unless you believe," Ryuji laughed.

Hasegawa also says that in high school, they noticed that the dishes they liked in lifestyle magazines and recipe books were usually by the same teacher, and they loved researching that teacher's background and life and thinking about the intentions behind their recipes. Hasegawa suggested they'd like to see a cook-training channel where Ryuji draws out other cooks' individuality and "consults" for them. Ryuji replied that they'd like to do it, but wondered whether it would be okay for them to be the one doing the training.

Cooking begins by dropping the ground chicken straight into an unheated pot with a "plop." All the leeks go on top, followed by 50 ml of sake and salt. According to Hasegawa, the recipe calls for two pinches of salt, but because they always use a lot of sake, they use cooking sake for cost-effectiveness and because even minors can buy it. For that reason, this time they used half a teaspoon of salt. Cover with a lid and steam for about five minutes.

When Ryuji asked, "So you're doing it like sakamushi?", Hasegawa said yes. Ryuji points out that Hasegawa loves alcohol and that most of their dishes contain sake. Hasegawa explains that sake adds umami, and that leaving things to the sake means they don't have to work hard themselves; that part becomes delicious on its own. The hamburg steak the other day was also sake-steamed. Hasegawa says their favorite food has long been sake-steamed clams.

Steaming the ground meat in sake as a block lets it cook through while still in a mass, so it doesn't break up too much and gives a chunky texture. Ryuji said that encountering ideas they don't have themselves "gets me fired up."

Of the state after steaming, Ryuji said, "At this point I have no idea what's going on," and joked that this is the "I believe in you, Akari" stage. From here, the meat is broken up a little with a spatula, but not too finely, keeping it chunky.

Next, add about 2 teaspoons of curry powder and about 2 teaspoons of mentsuyu (2x concentrate). Hasegawa said this is a very early recipe, so they probably wouldn't use mentsuyu today. Ryuji agreed that anyone who has seen Hasegawa's recent recipes can tell the present-day Hasegawa wouldn't add mentsuyu.

For the dashi, the dashi pack that's been standing by at the pot is torn open and its contents added directly. Hasegawa says they aren't particular about this either. If you make dashi separately for miso soup, you can set aside 300 ml and add that. Ryuji added, "You can eat what's inside a dashi pack, after all." This time they used a salt-free dashi pack, but Hasegawa explained that if you use a salted dashi pack, you should leave out the salt at the beginning. Add 300 ml of water and simmer for about five minutes, and it's done.

Ryuji remarked that because there's no wheat or oil in it, it's light like soup curry, and healthy. Ryuji has also been hooked on oil-free curries lately, and Hasegawa says they often watched Ryuji's "waterless curry" videos. Finally, taste and adjust with salt until it seems just slightly strong on its own. Ryuji said "This is really good" at the tasting stage, and Hasegawa confessed that, worried about what to do if it didn't suit Ryuji's taste, they'd had sleepless nights right up until today.

The rice is mounded in the center of the bowl and the curry poured over it. With curry, rice is sometimes pushed to one side, but in this recipe it goes in the middle. The aromatics are arranged around it. Hasegawa demonstrated a style of arranging them in separate sections, like meals. Ryuji was surprised, saying, "I would never do this" and "Now that's plating." Adding shibazuke makes it instantly cute, and you can also top it with toasted sesame seeds.

Toppings are up to you, and some viewers apparently add natto or tenkasu. For a change of flavor, when you want more punch or bite, Hasegawa recommended shio kombu. Hasegawa's recent favorite is wasabi, and Ryuji was amused by the combination of "wasabi on curry." Topping it off with bonito flakes and so on, from here it's "free skate."

You eat it while mixing in the aromatics, and eventually everything gets mixed together. Hasegawa explained that people tend to rely on saltiness and strong flavors, but aroma can also keep you eating. Ryuji agreed, noting that even in spice dishes, salt alone can sometimes set the flavor.

Ryuji's verdict was: "This is really good," "This isn't my flavor. It has depth," and "It's the type that wins you over with aroma." Hasegawa had worried that Ryuji's fans might find it lacking. Ryuji responded that anyone who finds it lacking can just add shio kombu. According to Ryuji, their own cooking hits you on the first bite, while Hasegawa's is the type that's delicious down to the last spoonful. Hasegawa described flavors as being either "2D" or "3D." 2D dishes are flavors that hit you hard all at once, while Hasegawa's own cooking is the 3D type, a flavor that circles around in your mouth. Ryuji called it "a dish that's better on the third bite than the first," saying the fragrance of the aromatics follows in stages, with the ginger coming afterward.

As for wasabi, Ryuji said they're in the "you should add wasabi" camp, saying it makes it hugely satisfying. On the other hand, adding shio kombu adds quite a bit of umami and saltiness, instantly turning it into a crowd-pleasing, "viral-recipe-like" flavor. Even so, Ryuji said they wanted to eat it with wasabi this time. When Ryuji guessed it must be quite low in salt, Hasegawa replied that they thought it was on the low side for the amount of rice and ingredients. Hasegawa added that when yuzu is in season, yuzu goes well with it too, and Ryuji responded that yuzu kosho would probably work as well.

Ryuji said that how to create satisfaction without using oil is a challenge for cooks like them, and gave the verdict, "This really works." Ryuji said they like subtractive flavors but don't make them themselves, so if people learn that this kind of world exists, maybe they too could move into "the world of subtraction."

During cooking, the two also talked about the differences in their content styles. Hasegawa said their concept is to avoid strong language and get as wide a range of people as possible to cook. They love Ryuji's phrases like "a dressing so good it'd be tasty poured on fallen leaves," so much that they think they could never beat that in a lifetime. Hasegawa then pointed out that under traditional gender roles, women felt a stronger sense that they had to be the ones cooking. Hasegawa's view is that Ryuji drew in dads and single men who previously had little intention of cooking.

In response, Ryuji explained their thinking. At first, most of their followers were women, and every day they received comments and DMs saying things like their husbands didn't react even when they cooked. Ryuji grew up in a single-mother household, so they had a "women-leaning" sensibility, and they thought about how to solve this. They figured that if men cooked too, they would understand how the person cooking feels. Hasegawa summed it up as "everyone becomes a participant," and Ryuji agreed. To that end, Ryuji used strong language and easy-to-understand ingredients, trying to be an "entry point."

However, Ryuji says they don't want to become too much of an entry point, with their influence growing so strong that everyone becomes "like Ryuji." That's why, even on their own channel, they tell people that since some cooks will suit you and some won't, you should look at other cooks too. They believe that way, the cooking of many different cooks will spread through the world.

Ryuji said that although junky food is their signature, they think it's fine whether it's junky or not, and that not being attached to anything is their strength. But, they added with a laugh, the things that actually go viral are all junky. Hasegawa has a similar concern: when dishes with unexpected combinations become popular one after another, people sometimes think of them as "someone who puts out weird dishes." Ryuji gave the example of the chikuwa, potato, and butter recipe, saying it tasted like seafood, like tarako, and was fun.

To close the main episode, Ryuji said this dashi curry is packed with everything they've been starting to forget while making viral recipes. They also said it's very good to have opportunities to encounter dishes like this, and announced that next time they will be the one teaching Hasegawa a dish. Staff who tasted it were also surprised at how well wasabi went with it.

In the bonus talk, the background behind releasing this recipe was discussed again. According to Hasegawa, during the period when Ryuji had enormous influence on X (then Twitter), the trend in cooking was that everyone wanted to be like Ryuji. Hasegawa thought there could be room for cooking that wasn't like that, and this Dashi Curry Loaded with Aromatics was one of the first things they put out. They also said there was "a bit of deliberately saying the opposite" to it.

In response, Ryuji revealed that they don't much like cooks who imitate them, because they can tell right away when they see it. When they saw Hasegawa's recipe, it made them think, "What on earth is this?" and "So this kind of thing works too?" Ryuji says it's exciting to see someone at the opposite pole from them succeed. Hasegawa pointed out that because Ryuji is so charismatic, there's even a prevailing belief that nothing will go viral on social media unless it has a Ryuji-like flavor. They said they too had been anxious about how far their own idea of good cooking, which isn't like that, could get on Twitter.

Ryuji said that with dishes that feel like "I've seen this somewhere" flooding X, Instagram, and short videos, they deliberately aim for virality with approachable dishes. Hasegawa, on the other hand, creates from their own ideas, and Ryuji felt "this is real cooking," so they think people like Hasegawa are exactly the ones who should be recognized.

According to Hasegawa, they also see comments saying that people who love Hasegawa's cooking and people who love Ryuji's cooking live in the same household and have gotten into arguments over it. Ryuji acknowledged that from the outside, the two are seen as being in an "adversarial relationship." Ryuji then explained that the reason recent viral recipes have become gentler is that this kind of cooking, starting with Hasegawa's, has gained public acceptance. Ryuji said they couldn't do that themselves, and that Hasegawa paved the way, for which they are grateful. People on the outside may think the two don't get along, but in fact this was their first time meeting, and Ryuji said, "I have enormous respect for them."

The video ended with casual chat, including how Hasegawa had appeared on "Tensai Terebi-kun" from sixth grade, and how the generation Ryuji watched was before that.