The "Ultimate Shiso Genovese" Made with Shiso and Ground Sesame: Ryuji on Key Techniques and the Japanization of Italian Cuisine

Ryuji begins by pointing out that Genovese is normally made with basil, but basil isn't sold in many places, and most people rarely buy it for home cooking. So Ryuji chose shiso, which is easy to get. According to Ryuji, shiso belongs to the same mint family as basil. Asked about its season, Ryuji answers that shiso is basically a summer plant, but it grows like a weed, so the season doesn't matter much.

In traditional Genovese, walnuts or pine nuts are blended into a paste along with the basil. Ryuji says that in the past, when pine nuts couldn't be found at the supermarket, walnuts were used as a substitute. Since this version has a Japanese twist, Ryuji decided ground sesame would be enough. Walnuts and pine nuts are also expensive. When the staff asked what pine nuts are, Ryuji answered that they're something like the seeds of pine cones, as far as Ryuji remembers, and added that viewers should say so if that's wrong.

For two servings, the recipe uses about 20 shiso leaves. These are torn and placed in a Bunbun Chopper, followed by garlic, ground sesame, two pinches of salt, and 3 tablespoons of olive oil. If you want to be thorough, Ryuji says, it's better to grate the garlic. The reason given is that in the chopper, both the garlic and the shiso just get finely chopped rather than turning into a paste.

On this point, Ryuji repeated that a blender is definitely better. With the chopper, some texture remains and the color doesn't come out as well. Ryuji says people who want to aim higher or who are after the real flavor should make it with a blender. However, Ryuji also noted that it's plenty tasty with the chopper.

The staff countered that most viewers would probably choose the easier method. They said a blender has to be taken down from a high shelf and put away after use, which is a hassle, so they've stopped using theirs. Someone also mentioned that owning a blender is a big hurdle for people who live alone. Ryuji pushed back, arguing that a blender is far easier. Ryuji then admitted their true feelings: because of viewers like that, Ryuji can never make truly authentic dishes; having exhausted all the simple recipes, Ryuji wants to raise the bar for viewers and do more proper Italian food. When the staff said, "Let's do it once in a while," Ryuji replied that today was that "once in a while," and laughingly turned down the suggestion to switch to a blender now as making no sense.

To get a finer result even with the chopper, Ryuji added about 1 tablespoon of water. The moisture makes it easier to blend. Since pasta water will be added later anyway, adding water causes no problems. Olive oil could also add liquid, but using too much makes it heavy, so Ryuji chose water. After the water was added, the mixture came closer to a paste than before.

The plan was to add cheese to the sauce, but there was no pizza cheese, so cheddar was used at the last minute. Ryuji says they don't really like cheddar here because it turns things yellowish. The concern was that the color would shift when the goal was a green finish. When it was actually mixed in, the staff remarked that it "isn't that yellow," and the conclusion was that it would work out somehow.

Traditional Genovese is made with Parmigiano-Reggiano, but most people don't have it at home. Ryuji recommends melting cheese to viewers, adding that Parmigiano can be used if you have it. Near the end, Ryuji noted again that Parmigiano is expensive, so using melting cheese or cheddar keeps the cost down. The amount of cheese is 20 g per serving.

The toppings are bacon and potatoes. The bacon can be swapped for octopus, but bacon is the easiest to use. According to Ryuji, Genovese pasta tastes better with toppings in it. About 40 g of thick-cut bacon per serving is cut and fried until crispy in a pan without oil. The reasoning is that Genovese pasta has no texture of its own, so it tastes better with something crispy.

For the potatoes, one small potato per person is about right; in the end, it came to about 70 g per person. The amount is small because, Ryuji says, too much turns it into a "potato dish." When the staff said potatoes are unusual in pasta, Ryuji explained that potatoes pair very well with Genovese and that many restaurants use them too.

The cut is Ryuji's preference: thin strips like French fries. This makes them easy to eat together with the pasta. In dishes like this, potatoes are often boiled or steamed in the microwave, but this time they're cooked in the frying pan. After frying until browned, about 3 tablespoons of water are added to steam them. This steams the potatoes, so no microwave is needed. Lightly steaming them brings out a bit of thickness while leaving a slightly crisp texture. Cooking them until mushy makes them merge with the pasta, so this level is just right. Ryuji says, "There's a lot of technique packed into this."

While peeling the potatoes, a slightly green patch was found. Ryuji cautions that when the skin is green, you should peel all of it off. This led to a story about an acquaintance who recently ate a green potato, thinking it would be fine, and quickly felt sick. Even though they had been helping out with Buzz Recipe, they hadn't believed the warning, thinking a little would be okay.

From this story, Ryuji broadened the discussion, saying that people only learn through their bodies, so failing is very important. People these days are so afraid of failure that they don't do anything, but you don't grow without failing. Ryuji says they themselves have failed at almost everything. When Ryuji started out as a culinary researcher, their experience consisted only of working as a hotel employee, a little time as a cook, and administrative work in elder care, so Ryuji didn't know anything. As a result, Ryuji went through a lot of unnecessary hardship and was deceived by various people. Even so, Ryuji now thinks it was for the best. It would really be better not to be deceived, but you don't understand until you get hurt yourself—that is Ryuji's view.

The pasta is a thick 1.8 mm variety. Ryuji stresses that thick pasta is absolutely the right match for Genovese. Many restaurants serve it with thin pasta, but Ryuji thinks thick pasta works better. When the staff suggested that a sauce with a bold flavor goes better with thicker pasta, Ryuji agreed. Penne would also be tasty, Ryuji says.

This is a dish Ryuji has been making for a long time; it originally comes from a recipe from three years ago. It's basically paired with octopus, but octopus is expensive, so bacon was used this time. The water is salted to about 1%. The pasta used is 1.8 mm with an 11-minute cooking time, and it's pulled out about 1 minute early to allow for the time spent combining it with the sauce.

At the finishing stage, Ryuji named one point viewers absolutely must remember: don't heat the sauce. Heating it turns the shiso brown. The same goes for basil, which quickly changes color.

The steps are as follows. After cooking the toppings, turn off the heat and place the sauce on top. Add about two ladlefuls of pasta water. Once the pasta water goes in, it suddenly becomes a proper sauce, and the cheese melts. After adding the cooked pasta, use the heat of the pasta and a little cooking just to thicken the sauce and melt the cheese, and no more.

Ryuji says their pasta needs umami later on, and added 8 shakes of umami seasoning (Ajinomoto in the recipe in the description). It's then loosened a little more with pasta water. The amount can be judged by feel, but a smoother sauce tastes better, Ryuji says. Finally, a light drizzle of olive oil finishes the dish. Ryuji made this with shiso, but also says it's delicious with basil.

While cooking, Ryuji said that people who want to eat a Genovese made exactly the authentic way should watch other channels, especially chefs' channels. Chefs will make it exactly the way it's done in Italy. Ryuji has been studying for a long time and is tired of seeing that, and since chefs don't make arrangements, Ryuji does the unorthodox version instead.

From there, Ryuji shared their own theory about Italian cuisine in Japan. According to Ryuji, only about 30 years have passed since Italian food became popular in Japan, giving it a short history compared to French cuisine, which has been enjoyed for about 100 years. There's a lot of creative French cuisine. Italian food, too, should spread through Japan from here on and get heavily remodeled.

The example Ryuji gave was ramen. According to Ryuji, in China the mainstream is something more like fried noodles than noodles in soup, and while ramen itself was born in China, it's said to have evolved in Japan. Chinese people even say Japanese ramen is delicious. That's why Ryuji thinks it's highly likely that Italian food will also get even tastier through Japanese remodeling.

On the other hand, Ryuji also said that Italians are conservative, so Italian cuisine hasn't evolved much. When Japanese people go to Italy to learn to cook, they're told not to change things too much. As an example of something that evolved uniquely in Japan, Ryuji cited Napolitan. Italians get furious about putting ketchup in pasta, but Napolitan developed independently in Japan as a pan-fried pasta, and now there are even Napolitan chain restaurants. Traditional Italian cooking is necessary too, but Ryuji's position is that it's better to keep changing things. Ryuji said Japan is a country of remodeling, that much Chinese food in Japan differs from the original, and gave mapo tofu as an example. That led to a topic from a previous shoot, but the staff apologized, saying they concentrate on the camera during filming and don't really listen to the conversation.

When tasting the finished "Ultimate Shiso Genovese," the staff praised the potatoes as delicious. They also said they almost never eat pasta with potatoes in it. Ryuji places so much importance on the potatoes as to say that without them, there's no need to make this recipe at all. The reason, Ryuji explained, is that Genovese and potatoes go very well together, just as there's such a thing as basil potato salad.

The staff also said that microwaved potatoes wouldn't have this texture, so perhaps cutting them into thin strips and frying them was what made the difference. Ryuji agreed that it's definitely tastier that way.

Asked about quantity, Ryuji answered that if you make it with basil, you need about the same amount as the shiso—enough to use up a whole pack. Authentic Genovese uses even more to make it green. In other words, even this version is on the light side.

The staff pointed out a slightly sharp, spicy kick. Ryuji answered that it comes from the raw garlic. After tasting, Ryuji reflected that 10 g of garlic was a bit much and too pungent, and that about 5 g might be enough. The garlic gives it a punchy flavor like Jiro-style ramen, and the staff commented that it's not really lunchtime food but seems like it would give you stamina. Ryuji says regular Genovese also has quite a lot of garlic, and this is tasty in its own way. Ryuji added that it's also good in its own way without garlic. Since authentic Genovese uses a lot of pine nuts and olive oil, it's a pasta about this hearty and heavy, Ryuji says.

For a change of flavor, Ryuji recommended adding salt. Because of the potatoes, a bit more salt tightens up the flavor. The staff also said they might like it better with extra salt.

From there, Ryuji explained their thinking on seasoning. For a restaurant course meal, it's better to keep the salt low, but if you're eating just one plate, it's delicious even with a good amount of salt. If you're eating it with carpaccio, soup, or the like, no extra salt is needed. Ryuji and the team basically develop recipes on the assumption that they'll be eaten as a single dish.

The staff mentioned that comments sometimes say a dish is "salty," and suggested it might be better to explain that kind of balance properly too. Ryuji replied that for pasta served alongside lots of other dishes, no extra salt is needed, and that adjusting these things to your own taste is very important. Since it's an everyday matter, Ryuji thinks other channels rarely teach it. There was also a caution about pasta water: if you overcook the pasta, you end up adding more pasta water, which makes it too salty, so getting the balance right when adjusting the texture with pasta water is important.

The tasting ended with both Ryuji and the staff nearly finishing their plates. At the end, the staff reflected once more that microwaved and pan-fried potatoes have different textures, so cutting them into thin strips and frying them was probably what made it work this time.