Jessica Wu of Sola on Odds-Based Decisions, Selling Before Building, and Automating Enterprise Work
EO Korea
Jessica Wu is co-founder and CEO of Sola, an intelligent process automation platform that uses AI to help businesses automate critical operational workflows. In this interview, Wu traces a path from competitive piano and math, through MIT, to quantitative finance, and finally to founding a startup. A thread runs through the whole conversation: startups are emotional, and Wu argues that founders make better choices when they reduce problems to their root and weigh decisions statistically rather than by feel. Wu then applies that view to concrete cases: turning down early revenue, adopting Y Combinator's "sell first" advice, winning enterprise trust as a small company, and coping with the highs and lows of founding.
What Sola Is and Where It Stands
Wu describes Sola as a platform that helps businesses automate their "most critical and operational workflows using AI in a much easier and faster way than traditional RPA." The company came out of Y Combinator about two years before the interview. It raised a seed round led by Sarah at Conviction, and more recently a Series A led by a16z, which Wu attributes to strong traction with enterprise customers.
Wu reports several growth figures. Revenue grew 5x this year, and execution volume on the platform has doubled month over month since the start of the year. Customers include companies in the Fortune 100 and the Am Law 100, along with some of the largest private businesses in logistics and health care.
Competition, Discomfort, and MIT
Wu grew up competing in piano and math and believes this built a strong will and discipline. Wu counts risk-taking as a personal strength, meaning a willingness to put oneself in uncomfortable situations and to act before feeling fully ready. Wu says they do this often and believes it builds resilience and character.
Wu visited MIT several times in high school and describes it as a place that does a good job of making you "the dumbest person in the room," which Wu finds the most fun kind of environment because there is so much to learn from others. In Wu's telling, MIT is the one place that really is as the movies portray it, with students building roller coasters on the front lawn and training models in dorm basements. Wu also says MIT "puts a ceiling" on how technically hard things get. Even two years into running the company, Wu says, nothing since college has required as much sheer brainpower as the hard problems there.
Wu's advice for students is to jump into things as quickly as possible. That means learning what researchers are working on, spending as much time as possible with those researchers, and making a habit of taking in whatever is at the frontier. Wu argues this habit matters especially now, when the tech world changes so quickly.
Reducing Problems to the Root
Wu sees one main benefit of a technical background: it lets you break problems down easily. If you can state what you are trying to solve in simple terms, Wu says, it becomes much easier to solve. Wu thinks this matters more in an environment where "new model basically comes out every single week." Their answer is to keep coming back to what you are solving for your customer or user, and build from there.
Wu also distinguishes the root problem from "the problem that people are saying." Once you narrow things down to the underlying problem, Wu argues, you can deliver far more value to the people who use what you build.
What Finance Taught About Decision-Making
Before Sola, Wu had no plan to start a company. Wu had tried venture capital and worked at a couple of hedge funds, including one where Wu was the youngest quant researcher. An advisor had recommended time in finance because it teaches a special way of thinking, especially in trading. Wu summarizes that way of thinking as being objective and always calculating the odds.
Wu admits to not always thinking in a numerical or standardized way and says the years in finance helped a great deal with objectivity and rational analysis. Because startups can be very emotional, Wu says, going back to first principles and thinking statistically helps with decisions.
Wu gives startup examples. One is weighing a very large deployment. Another is deciding which features to build. Wu suggests asking questions like what the odds are that a particular customer converts by a particular date, and what you are giving up in exchange, while noting "this isn't perfect math." The point, Wu says, is to have a statistical framework rather than deciding because "I really like this customer, so I want to work with them." Wu agrees with the common claim that poker teaches useful startup lessons. In Wu's view much of it comes down to odds, rationality, and making decisions in the best direction.
The Origin of the Problem: RPA and Brittle Legacy Systems
The idea for Sola started at one of the hedge funds. Staff there did a lot of manual work in a very old brokerage system the firm had built on, and Wu had been trying to automate it with RPA tools. Wu explains that RPA, or robotic process automation, automates manual work by copying how humans work: moving the mouse, typing, clicking, and using browser and desktop applications.
At the time, Wu did not know how big the RPA market was. Wu did know that large companies have a lot of manual work and that no easy tools existed for it. Even with a computer science background, Wu found it hard to build a simple browser or desktop automation. Wu calls this "the seed of the problem."
Wu's co-founder had a similar experience building hospital systems at MGH. The old tools there surprised him with how brittle they were and how hard they were to implement. Wu calls these two experiences "really lucky glimpses" into how work is done in the real world.
Wu contrasts this with life at MIT, which is very tech-forward. Tools there are easy to use, everything has APIs that connect to each other, and automations are simple to build. At most real companies, Wu says, the work is very manual, and people move across many systems that don't connect: spreadsheets, internal portals, external systems, files, "and just about everything in between."
From YC Without an Idea to an RPA Company
Wu says the team entered YC without much of an idea and spent roughly the first month working out what to build. RPA appealed to them because they understood the problem well and knew how they wanted to solve it. Wu calls the goal of automating all digital work "a perennial and obvious one." What excited the team was the combination of applying AI to real enterprise work and the technical and model improvements coming from the other side.
The MVP and How the Product Changed
Sola's first version was simple. Like today's product, it had a recorder for capturing a workflow, which could then be uploaded. Unlike today, it did a poor job of showing what the workflow actually did. It could run the workflow, but only on the user's own computer, repeating the same steps. Wu says it was "not quite as intelligent or easy to use as we had hoped."
Recording and uploading still work the same way. Now, Wu says, workflows can run on hundreds of VMs at scale. Users can edit them in fine detail, add logic and extra information, and choose from many options for orchestrating and running them at scale.
Tradeoffs: Catching Up and Saying No to Revenue
Wu says the team probably underestimated one thing: existing tools "offer everything under the sun" after 20 years of development, which raises the question of how a newcomer catches up. The balance they found was to become useful to customers quickly enough, without trying to match everything at once.
Wu describes some painful moments early on when the team had to give up exciting early revenue to focus on the core product. They turned customers down at the very beginning, including some deals that were "almost there, but not quite." In the early months, Wu says, a company gets pulled in many directions. Some conversations meant saying no to big names the team was excited about. Wu gives two reasons: those deals did not fit the direction the team wanted to take, and the team was capacity-constrained, so taking them on would have meant sacrificing too much elsewhere in the business.
When panicked or under pressure, Wu relies heavily on advisors. Wu says they ask for a lot of advice and keep people with more experience close. The first step in a crisis is to gather those people's views, which Wu says usually helps.
YC's "Sell First" Advice and Its Limits
The team chose YC because of its reputation and because early advice told them they would be surrounded by great people and have three months to lock in. Wu says YC pushes founders hard to sell. Even without a working product, a team can put up a fake front end, for example with a tool like Lovable, and try to sell it.
Wu explains the reasoning. When you build something, you often don't know if you are going in the right direction. The clearest sign that people want it is that they will pay for it and keep paying. YC's message, as Wu puts it, is "don't spend 6 months to build a product. First try and sell something. See if it works." Wu adds that you may "burn a couple bridges" this way, so "your mileage may vary." Even so, you come away with a clear picture of whether people would pay, rely on the product, and see it as solving a real problem.
Wu also sets limits. Selling first stops being appropriate as a company grows: "don't sell a fake feature." The mindset still applies, though. Even on the right product, there are many possible directions, and Wu recommends experimenting, building mock-ups, talking to customers, shipping something, and then iterating and polishing.
Wu says the team met its first customer very early, around YC, while they were selling a product that did not yet exist. They were honest about it. They told the customer it would exist in a few months, and the customer said to come back when it did. Wu calls the advice counterintuitive, since people are taught all their lives to finish something before presenting or selling it. Wu says it is "not for the faint of heart." If you succeed and actually make the sale, you then have to deliver, and YC's advice at that point is roughly to "spend a week in the basement coding." Wu still thinks the approach points you the right way, because it gives a clear yes or no on whether the thing is worth doing at all.
Customer Delight as a Small Company's Advantage
Wu names Delivering Happiness as a favorite book. Wu describes it as a book about how small things matter and how customer delight works as a north star, and says delight takes many forms beyond delivering on time. Wu's team has found that "if your customers are happy, most other things fall in place."
Wu stresses that this is hard in their field. Sola is asking companies that have existed for decades, or even centuries, to trust a startup with their most critical operations. Wu says most customers now come through word of mouth, which Wu credits to how happy existing customers have been.
Wu lists ways a small, new tool can make up for its newness. The first, and obvious, one is to build a great experience that truly solves customer problems. The second is to ship fast and act on good feedback. Wu says this works in both directions: choose customers who give good feedback, and move quickly on what they ask for. Wu also mentions more traditional ways to win enterprise customers, such as being supportive and listening, and calls listening "the most important thing you can do for customers." The team still holds weekly calls with some early design partners, collecting feedback each week and delivering quickly. Wu believes this is part of why companies choose a startup over an old incumbent, beyond the tool simply being better.
Christmas Deployments and "We Can Never Go Down"
Wu tells the story of one of Sola's largest customers, who wanted a deployment last year during their quietest period, which was Christmas Day. The customer had used Sola for a long time and had been championing it internally. The team came in and worked that week. Wu's view was that if the deployment was going to happen on Christmas, they would do it, though Wu adds, "I hope that we don't have to ask this of the team again."
Wu says this reflects the stakes of Sola's work. Customers use it to send invoices, run accounts payable, send out shipments, and enter patient data. The team realized early that Sola "can never go down," because an outage could mean a real business with hundreds or thousands of employees has late billing that day. Wu contrasts this with consumer tools or AI tools that generate copy or find sales leads. When those go down it disrupts people's work, but "it's not the end of the world." For Sola, Wu says, "when we go down, it is sort of the end of the world." Wu says the team has worked "a million weekends and a million different holidays" to keep the service running and is very grateful to the customers who bet on an early startup. Wu hopes the company can keep delivering on its promises.
The Compressed Roller Coaster of Founding
Wu calls building a startup "really, really unimaginably difficult": a roller coaster of very high highs and very low lows, compressed so tightly that your best morning can be followed two hours later by some of the worst news you've heard, day after day or week after week. Wu gives examples of the bad news: a team member leaving, or a champion at a customer leaving in the middle of a sales process.
What Wu has learned is that things tend to return to normal. Wu has come to trust that things will be okay even when they don't feel okay, with two conditions: you are building in the right market, and you have the right people around you. As such events keep happening, founders learn to step back and handle much more than before. Wu says the early team learns this too, and seeing the bigger picture helps a lot with peace of mind.
Why Keep Going: A Ten-Year Problem
Wu closes with the reasons for staying committed. The problem is big enough that "there will be no problem of us having 10 years to spend on it." Wu also believes deeply in Sola's mission: much manual, tedious work shouldn't have to be done by people. Wu hopes businesses will rely on Sola for the rote work nobody really wants to do, so people can spend their time on the more fulfilling, creative, and interesting parts of work, such as leadership, strategy, and decision-making.
I was actually the youngest quant researcher at a pretty big hedge fund today and so had started my career in finance but had seen a lot of different areas. Very thesis driven to just pure numbers and numbers crunching.
You know, when I was working in corporate finance, I would work I don't know, 9-10 hours a day and five days a week and then if I was called in on a weekend, I would honestly be very miserable. Just felt like it wasn't my own thing. Now I work, well, every waking second and seven days a week but I've never been happier and I think I'm young so that's one piece that gives me a little bit more optionality.
When it comes to what you want to do though, this sounds very simple but it's really just what feels right. The team feels that way too. It's really like when you own a piece of something and you're really growing it from ground up. It's easy to feel excited and so my advice for like stable career versus startup is if you have the optionality to, I think, you know, whatever makes you feel happy, whatever makes you feel like you're excited to go to work every single day and that you feel very fulfilled in what you're doing.
Hi, I'm Jessica, co-founder and CEO of Sola. Sola is an intelligent process automation platform. We help businesses automate their most critical and operational workflows using AI in a much easier and faster way than traditional RPA.
Sola started out of YC about two years ago. Since then we have raised a seed round led by Sarah at Conviction. Most recently we've raised a Series A led by a16z following an enormous amount of traction from our enterprise customers. We have 5x'd our revenue this year. Execution volume on the platform is doubling month over month since the beginning of this year and we're proud to partner with some of the largest companies in the world including the Fortune 100, Am Law 100 and some of the largest private businesses in logistics and health care.
I grew up doing a lot of very competitive things. Played competitive piano and I did competitive math and things like that. I think that gives you a pretty hard will. It probably makes you very disciplined. I think I'm good at taking risks and putting myself out in places that I don't feel comfortable, and I think that builds up a lot of resilience. Like doing something even if you don't feel like you're 100% ready, I do that a lot. And just jumping into things and really going for it, I think that builds up a lot of character.
When I was in high school, I visited MIT a couple of times. I think it does a great job of the whole, you know, you're the dumbest person in the room kind of thing. It's always the most fun when you're surrounded by a lot of people you can learn from. I think MIT is a very unique place. It's the only place where it's really exactly as it's portrayed in the movies. You have people building roller coasters in the front lawn, and you have people training models in the dorm basement and things like that. And it's every bit as real as it's described.
I think that MIT really puts a ceiling on how technically difficult things get. I've been working on this company for about 2 years now and have experienced a lot of different things since college, but never have I had to use like so many brain cells to just think about a really hard problem.
I think the most important thing you should do is jump into everything as quickly as you can. And MIT does a great job of showing you exactly what's on the forefront of what you should be paying attention to. You should absolutely go learn about all the new things that people are doing research about. You should absolutely spend as much time as you can with people that are doing said research. And I think that if you create a habit around trying to learn as much as you can and intake as much of what's on the frontier as possible, then you're better equipped, especially now, to learn and to work in an environment like today where things change so rapidly and there's so many things happening in the tech world.
I think the thing that you get from just a very technical background is you can break things down very easily. If you can communicate what you're trying to solve in a very simple way, it makes it a lot easier to solve. And that just gives you a really good framework around solving things. Especially in a landscape like today where a new model basically comes out every single week and things are constantly changing. I think there's a lot of value in always centering back to like what are you trying to solve for your customer or for your user, whoever that is, and then just building on top of that. And I think once you look and sort of narrow things down to the root problem, not just the problem that people are saying, then you can deliver an enormous amount of value to the people that are interfacing with what you're doing.
Before I worked on Sola as a startup, I had no idea that I wanted to do a startup. I had tried a lot of different things. I had worked in venture. I had worked at a couple hedge funds. I was actually the youngest quant researcher at a pretty big hedge fund today.
Finance was an interesting choice. I had an advisor who recommended to me that it's actually pretty good to spend some time in finance because it teaches you a way of thinking that's pretty special, especially if you're doing trading. Teaches you to be very objective, that you should always calculate odds for things. I think I am someone who's guilty of not thinking in a very numerical or like standardized way all the time. And so I think working in finance for a couple years gave me a lot of perspective on being objective, being able to calculate and just think through things in a very rational way. And that's something that's stuck with me.
Doing a startup can be very emotional, and I think always going back to first principles thinking and trying to think in a more like statistical way can be pretty helpful in terms of making decisions. Even like in a startup lens, maybe you're looking at a super huge deployment, and that's something you have to really weigh, or someone is really looking at features. Like all of those things can be mapped out in a way that's more rational. You can say, you know, what are the odds that this particular, you know, this isn't perfect math, particular customer converts by this particular day, what are the things that I'm trading off? And it gives you a very statistical framework to think about these decisions without just I really like this customer, so I want to work with them.
People tell you that you can learn a lot from playing poker, and that applies a lot to the startup world. I think that's true. A lot of it is just odds, being rational, and then, you know, making decisions in the best direction, and it's actually very useful when you work on a startup.
At one of the hedge funds we worked at, they had a lot of manual work around interacting with this really old brokerage software that they built on top of. At the time, I had been using RPA tools to try to automate that. I didn't really know how big the space of RPA was. So, RPA stands for robotic process automation. RPA tools basically automate manual work by replicating workflows the way humans do. So, moving the mouse, typing things in, clicking, and interfacing with browser and desktop applications the way humans do.
What I did know was that there is a lot of manual work at these larger companies. There's no good tools out there that are really easy to use. And even though I have a computer science background, it was still really hard for me to just build a simple browser or desktop automation. That was sort of where the seed of the problem happened.
My co-founder actually had a really similar experience. He was building out hospital systems at MGH. They had used some very old tooling, and he was also surprised by how brittle it was and how hard it was to implement. I think those were really good glimpses for us into what real-world work looks like.
When you're at MIT, you live in a very tech-forward world, and you're surrounded by tools that are very easy to use. That everything has APIs that plug into each other. You can build automations very easily. But in the real world, when you're looking at most companies out there, they're doing really manual work. People operate across a ton of different systems that don't connect. As you can imagine, people doing operations will touch spreadsheets, internal portals, external systems. They will touch files and just about everything in between. Two really lucky glimpses, I think, that we had into what that actually looked like.
From there, when we went through YC, like I mentioned, we kind of came in without too much of an idea. We spent about the first month or so just figuring out what we wanted to build. I think the RPA space was very exciting to us because we understood very well what that problem looked like and how we wanted to solve it. Obviously, RPA is very big, and I think that place is exciting to us. The ambition of automating all digital work is a perennial and obvious one and I think the aspects of like being able to marry AI in the real world for enterprise companies and all the technical and model improvements on the flip side of things was a very exciting sort of combination for us.
Sola's MVP was very simple. We had a recorder just like today. That part's the same. That lets you take a recording of your workflow. You can upload it, but different from today, it didn't really do a great job of laying out what your workflow did. You could also run it and it would just run on your own computer and repeat back the same steps. Not quite as intelligent or easy to use as we had hoped and since then, we've kept a lot of things the same. So, you know, you can still record a workflow. You can still upload it to the platform, but now you can run it on hundreds of VMs at scale. You can edit it and change things in very fine granularity. You can add logic. You can add information on top and you have a lot of optionality on how you want to orchestrate and run these things at scale.
One thing we had probably underestimated was just... There were a lot of tradeoffs that we had to make, but it is a big question of, you know, existing tools offer everything under the sun and they've been building this tool for 20 years. Like, how do you actually get up to speed? One thing that we found to be a pretty good balancing act is just getting to the point where we can be helpful for customers, but also, you know, being able to do so in a pretty timely fashion.
There are a couple hard moments that I can think of in the early days where we had to give up really exciting early revenue. It was just a point where we had to really focus on building this core product, but we had to turn down customers at the very beginning, turn down people when we were, you know, almost there, but not quite and that was very difficult. I think in the early months you get pulled in a lot of different directions. There were some hard conversations where we had to say no to some huge names that we were very excited about. It didn't feel aligned with the direction that we wanted to go down. We were capacity constrained and it would mean giving up or sacrificing too many other things in other areas of the business.
I'm pretty big on advisors. I'm someone that asks for a lot of advice. I like to surround myself with people that I think have a lot more experience. So, whenever I get panicked or I'm under pressure, the first thing I'll do is just go to all of my resources and get people's takes on things. I think usually that puts me in a pretty good place.
We chose YC because we had heard really good things about it, and that was also the advice that we got early on, which is that you are going to be surrounded by a lot of really amazing people and you're going to have 3 months to lock in.
YC tells you to try and... They really push you to try and sell something. This means that even if you don't have a working product, you can put up like a, you know, use Lovable or something to put up a fake front end, and then you should try and go sell it. And the good thing about that is a lot of the times when you build something, I don't know if this applies as much to Sola, but in general, when you build something, you don't know if you're going down the right direction. The most clear way you know you're building something that people want is if they'll pay for it, right? And if they'll keep paying for it. YC does a good job in really pushing you to sell, even if you may not be there, you know, don't spend 6 months to build a product. First try and sell something. See if it works. You might burn a couple bridges doing that, which is why I'm saying your mileage may vary, but at least you have a very clear picture of I know this person would pay for this. I know a lot of people would pay for this, and they would depend on it a lot, or I'm solving some really meaningful problem.
First sell is not good when you get a little bigger, like, you know, don't sell a fake feature. It still is a pretty good mindset to operate behind, which is even once you're working on the right product, there's a lot of directions you should go. Try and experiment, build different mock-ups of things, try and talk to customers, get something out there, and then go from there and iterate and polish it afterwards.
I think we met our first customer actually very early on. It was around YC. We were in the phase of doing the thing where we sold the product that didn't really exist. The good thing was we were pretty honest with them, and we told them this thing doesn't exist, but it will exist in a couple months, and they were like, okay, come talk to us when it does.
I think it's really hard advice. It's very unintuitive. You know, you're taught your whole life to finish something and go sell it, or then go present it, or whatever it is. And this is almost the entire opposite. It's like put up the most minimal fake version you probably can of something, and then go sell it, and then if it's good, then go back and build it. I think it's not for the faint of heart, for sure. And sometimes, you know, maybe you really succeeded, and you actually sold the thing, and now you have to deliver. And YC's advice there is probably like spend a week in the basement coding so that you can get it out. It's not easy advice to take, and selling without actually having the thing is not very intuitive. But I think it at least puts you in the right direction. It gives you a very clear yes or no for if this is something you should be doing at all.
One of my favorite books is called Delivering Happiness. It's quite good. It's about like sort of how the little things matter, and how customer delight is kind of a north star, but it doesn't just come in one form factor of like I did this thing on time. There's a million other ways you can build that up. If your customers are happy, most other things fall in place is something that we've tended to find. You know, especially when you're building very critical software for a company, you're asking a company that's been around for decades, or maybe even centuries, to trust you to do their most critical operations. That is by no means easy.
To this day, most of Sola's customers come through word of mouth, and that's because existing customers have felt so happy with the experience. You're small, you're early, so what can you do to make up for being a much newer tool?
And that's usually one, build a really great experience and really solve their problems. That's the obvious one. Second is to ship fast and really take in good feedback. This goes both ways, so you know, you want to pick customers that will give you good feedback, and you also want your customers or you also will want to take in the feedback that they give you and move very quickly on what they're asking.
There's a lot of ways that are more traditional than just building good tools where you can win enterprise companies over. You can be very supportive. You can listen to people. Listening is the most important thing you can do for customers. For some of our early design partners, we still do. We hop on a weekly call with them. We basically take in their feedback week
over week, and then we try to deliver at a pretty fast rate. And that's the sort of thing that will make people pick the startup over the really old legacy incumbent aside from just the tool being better.
One of our largest customers wanted to do a deployment of Sola last year. They wanted to do it during the most quiet period of the year, which was on Christmas Day because they don't get a ton of volume then. I hope that we don't have to ask this of the team again. We all came in. We worked that week. They had been using Sola for a long time and they have been championing it internally and were very excited. We were like, "Okay, if the deployment's going to happen on Christmas, we're going to do it." There have been moments like that.
I think in general we try to really go above and beyond. People are trusting us to run their operations. So, they will use Sola to send their invoices and do their accounts payable or they'll use it to actually send out shipments or they will enter in patient data. So, all these things are very critical. One thing that we realized when we built Sola is we can never go down. That actually means that a real business out there who has hundreds or thousands of employees, their billing is going to be late that day. We've done a lot to basically maintain that.
It's one of those things where it's a little bit different from a consumer tool or something that's AI that's generating copy or finding sales leads. With these things, if your tool goes down, it's a big deal and it disrupts people's work, but it's not the end of the world. The nature of our business, when we go down, it is sort of the end of the world. So, we've done a lot for our customers. We stay up and running all the time. We've spent a million weekends and a million different holidays in the office, but I think along the way it's been good. We're extremely thankful to the people who trusted us to take care of these workflows and made the bet on an early new startup and hopefully we can continue to deliver on everything that we've promised.
I think building a startup is really, really unimaginably difficult. You're on a roller coaster and you're constantly experiencing very high highs and very low lows. And then it's also compressed and so it's happening, the morning might be your best day ever and then 2 hours later you're suffering from probably the worst news you've ever heard. And this happens pretty much every day, maybe every week. Maybe not an exact moment, but I think as a founder you really just learn that things sort of return to the norm. You have this comfort in your head that things will be okay even if they don't feel okay because they always end up being okay provided that you are building in the right market and also that you have the right people around you.
And with those two things you might have some huge incident happen. Really bad news like someone leaves the team. Maybe a customer who is your champion who you were selling to left in the middle of the sales process. These things feel really bad and then once you get a little bit more used to them and they've been happening so often, you learn to take a step back and you're kind of able to process a lot more of the things happening at a startup than before. And I think the early team also kind of learns that as well and is able to look at the big picture and that tends to be much more helpful in terms of just mental peace when you're doing this.
What we're trying to build is a really big mission, so there will be no problem of us having 10 years to spend on it. I think it's an enormous problem space. The other is that I really do believe in what Sola is trying to accomplish. I think that there's a lot of work that people shouldn't have to do that's very manual and very tedious. And if we can free people up, they can do things that are very fulfilling and creative and very interesting. And I hope that businesses can start leaning on Sola and relying on Sola to do the things that are manual and rote and that people don't really want to do and instead spend time on things that are exciting and think through leadership and strategy and decision-making and all the more interesting parts of work.
Hey.
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