Sarah Paine on Why Wars Are Easy to Start and Hard to End

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Overview

Sarah Paine's lecture is about war termination. Her starting point is that getting into wars is easy, getting out of them is hard, and getting out of them with what you wanted is harder still. She uses the Russo-Japanese War of 1904–05 as a model of successful war termination from Japan's side, sets it beside other regional wars that ended reasonably well, and then turns to two pathologies. In the first, a regional war escalates into a global one. She notes this is a major fear about the war in Ukraine today. In the second, a country is defeated conventionally but refuses to give up and wages an insurgency. She calls this a strategy of victory denial, expensive for the occupier and even more expensive for the people fighting the insurgency.

34 min read

Her analytical tools come mostly from Carl von Clausewitz: the culminating point of attack, the culminating point of victory, the image of the "Bologna flask," the decisive or war-winning battle, and the distinction between limited and unlimited objectives. She adds Sun Tzu's concept of "death ground."

0:30

The Puzzle: How Did the Smaller Power Win?

Paine opens with a quantitative comparison. By almost every measurable standard (territory, population, industrial base, resource endowment, size of army, size of navy), Russia was a multiple of Japan. That raises the question of how Japan won.

Before discussing how the war ended, she explains how it began. Manchuria was, and long had been, Chinese territory. Japan and Russia both wanted to expand their empires into the region, Japan into the Korean peninsula and Russia into Manchuria. Russia had built an extensive railway system running south from Harbin to Port Arthur, where it kept a major naval base. Port Arthur mattered because it was ice-free, while Vladivostok froze for several months of the year in that period.

The Boxer Rebellion, which Paine calls "the al-Qaeda of their day," was a nationwide uprising in China aimed at driving Westerners out, and Boxers in Manchuria tore up Russia's railway concessions. Russia sent troops to protect them but kept the troops there after the rebellion ended. Japan proposed a trade: Russia would recognize Japan's sphere of influence in Korea, and Japan would recognize Russia's in Manchuria. According to Paine, the Russians weren't interested because they expected to get the whole thing and didn't take the Japanese seriously. The Japanese concluded that the clock was running while Russia stalled, and they decided to settle the matter militarily.

3:58

Port Arthur and the Problem of Too Few Soldiers

Japan attacked Port Arthur first because the Russian fleet was based there. If that fleet could operate freely, Japan could not protect the sea lines of communication that carried all its troops and supplies to the mainland. Japan blockaded the port by sea, but taking it also required investing it by land. Japan had only four armies, plus a fifth cobbled together near the end of the war, so a quarter of its army was tied down at Port Arthur.

Japan's plan for winning was to advance up the railway toward Harbin, fight a series of battles culminating in a great annihilating battle, and so bring Russia to the negotiating table. Paine says Japan did not have enough soldiers to do this. It needed the army besieging Port Arthur to join the other armies in the north, which put General Nogi, who commanded the siege, under enormous pressure to reduce the fortress quickly. He launched four frontal assaults, which are very costly against a fortress. Eventually he realized the key was 203-Meter Hill. With spotters on that height and very large-caliber siege guns, of which Japan had few, the Japanese could adjust their fire onto the ships anchored in the harbor. Taking that position took a long time, and meanwhile Nogi was losing an army's worth of men.

On the Russian side, Tsar Nicholas II sent the Baltic Fleet to relieve Port Arthur. The port fell before the fleet arrived, and instead of turning back, Nicholas sent the rest of his naval assets as well. The large ships went around Africa and the smaller ones through the Suez Canal. The Russians ended up fighting on Japanese terms at Tsushima, where, in Paine's words, the Japanese sank that navy.

6:24

Limited Objectives and What "Winning" Means

Paine describes this as a limited war, meaning each side fought for limited objectives. An unlimited objective is regime change. Japan never intended to overthrow the government in St. Petersburg. Nicholas II at first thought he could invade Japan and topple its government, but he soon learned this was not feasible, and his aim narrowed to getting the Japanese out of Manchuria.

Her larger point is that a war's success is not measured by battles won. The United States won most of the conventional battles in Vietnam, and she does not believe that war is recorded as a win. Success means achieving the objective you fought for. Japan's objective was to get Russia out of Korea, and it achieved that. It also got the southern half of Russia's railway concessions in Manchuria, the naval base, and more. Japan ended up with more than it originally wanted. Russia got nothing and, in her view, would have been far better off never fighting.

She adds the concept of opportunity cost. The money Russia spent on this war could have gone into something useful, such as expanding the railway network in European Russia, which would have helped greatly in World War I. Nicholas II lost that war, and he and his family were shot in a Siberian basement, ending the Romanov dynasty. Paine connects his fall to food riots, which were a problem of getting food to St. Petersburg. She suggests that railways built in the right places, where allies could have supplied Russia, might have produced a different outcome.

8:31

Clausewitz's Culminating Points

Paine then introduces two paired Clausewitzian terms. She quotes Clausewitz as saying that most attacks lead only to the point where the attacker's remaining strength is just enough to hold a defense and wait for peace. Beyond that point, "the scale turns and the reaction follows with a force that is usually much stronger than that of the original attack." That is the culminating point of attack. It is an operational concept that applies to a battle or a campaign, meaning a series of battles. The culminating point of victory applies to the war as a whole. Reducing the fleet at Port Arthur might be a battle objective, while the war objective is something like getting Russia out of Manchuria.

In either case, stopping short of the culminating point means you could have gained more at acceptable cost. Going past it means you have taken on risks and costs larger than any benefit, and you are probably weaker as a result. One key sign of having passed the culminating point of victory, she says, is intervention by a third party, which can change the nature of the war if that party is a large one.

9:52

Where Was the Culminating Point at Port Arthur?

To apply the concept, Paine asks when the culminating point of attack came at Port Arthur. She picks this battle because it started the war, lasted nearly a year, and ended with Japan destroying Russia's fleet in the theater. By the end of his frontal assaults, Nogi had lost about 45,000 men, the size of a Japanese army, out of an army of only four such formations. After Japan took 203-Meter Hill, it needed another week to bring up the guns, and then about three days to sink everything in the harbor. The Russians deliberated for about a month and then surrendered.

Paine points out that the garrison had enough food to hold out at least another month and probably longer, noting that it also had 3,000 "highly edible horses." Russian war planners had never considered using Port Arthur as a "fortress in being" that pinned down large Japanese forces. A cleverer Russian command, she suggests, might have turned that to its advantage.

She presents the question as an exercise in using evidence. One could argue that the culminating point came with the capture of 203-Meter Hill: the fleet was the key, and once the hill fell the fleet had no sanctuary and its loss was only a matter of time. An equally good counterargument holds that the culminating point came only with the destruction of the fleet itself, because the fleet tied down so much of Japan's army and navy and its destruction was the operational goal. She stresses that the rebuttals differ depending on which thesis you take, that a rebuttal should not repeat the main argument, and that listeners may come up with answers she hasn't listed.

"Decisive," "Lopsided," and "Pivotal" Battles

A related concept is the decisive battle. Paine uses the term as she says Mao and Clausewitz mostly did, to mean a war-winning battle. She quotes Clausewitz: campaigns whose outcome was determined by a single battle had become fairly common only in recent times, and cases in which a single battle settled an entire war were very rare. Using "decisive" to mean "important" says nothing, she argues, because it doesn't tell you in what way the battle mattered. For a battle with very skewed casualties she would say "lopsided." For a battle that closes off some options and opens others, she would say "pivotal." Port Arthur was not decisive, since more battles followed, but it was pivotal: certain things were foreclosed for Russia and certain things opened up for Japan.

Five Candidates for Russia's Breaking Point

Paine then asks whether the war ended before, after, or exactly at Japan's culminating point of victory. Ending exactly at that point is the Goldilocks outcome. She lays out five candidate explanations for why Russia gave up and leaves the choice to the audience.

The domestic implosion. Russia was among the most politically backward places in Europe. Its population was becoming more urban and better educated and wanted a political voice it did not have. Paine notes that only three European states lacked a legislature at the time: Russia, the Ottoman Empire, and Montenegro. Japan had one. By the end of 1904 the war was going badly, and Russians had little enthusiasm for fighting in a place they could not find on a map. Reservists rioted at their assembly points in European Russia, where they greatly outnumbered the regular troops, which was a frightening situation for an unpopular tsar with an even more unpopular wife. When a peaceful crowd marched on the Winter Palace to present a petition, Nicholas was not even in town. His troops panicked, opened fire, and killed many people, badly damaging the regime's legitimacy. Nicholas soon compromised and set up a very weak legislature.

Here Paine introduces Clausewitz's image of the Bologna flask: glass strong enough to hammer a nail with, but one that shatters completely if its inner surface is scratched. The question in any war is whether the first shock of battle will steel the enemy's resolve, which she says happened to Putin in Ukraine, or whether the enemy will shatter. It is hard to know in advance whether a side will fight on indefinitely, as the North Vietnamese did, or give up, as Nicholas II did. Because Nicholas was an autocrat, his decision was the only one that counted. When he decided the game was up, it was over.

The Battle of Mukden. On this reading, the turning point was the huge land battle at Mukden. Japan threw in everyone it could, including men too young, too old, or too exhausted to fight, and still fielded about 125,000 fewer troops than Russia. Japan had counted on a window of opportunity before the Trans-Siberian Railway could move large numbers of troops to the front. Paine's figures: at the start of the war the railway could carry 20,000 to 40,000 Russian troops a month, and by Mukden about 100,000. Had Russia had that capacity from the beginning, it would have had numerical superiority throughout and, in her words, Japan "would have been toast." Russia began with somewhat fewer than 100,000 men in the theater. By August 1904, around the Battle of Liaoyang, it had nearly 150,000, about 20,000 more than Japan. By August 1905, a month before the Portsmouth peace treaty, Russia had nearly 800,000 troops in the theater, which was only about 40 percent of an army she puts at roughly 3 million, while Japan had sent everything it had and still had fewer than 700,000. Japan could have been in serious trouble if Nicholas had steeled himself for one more battle.

Paine says the Japanese understood this. Even before attacking Port Arthur, they had planned their exit strategy: President Theodore Roosevelt would mediate the end of the war. They were counting on Americans being busybodies, and they calculated correctly. The arrangements were made in advance. Viscount Kaneko, a Harvard graduate and acquaintance of Roosevelt, himself a Harvard man, would approach the president, and the negotiations would be conducted by another Harvard alumnus, Baron Komura. After Mukden, Field Marshal Yamagata knew Japan had run out of resources and decided to play the American card. Paine quotes his reasoning: the enemy would never ask for peace unless Japan invaded Moscow or St. Petersburg, which was not feasible; the enemy still had powerful forces at home while Japan had exhausted its own; and the enemy was not short of officers while Japan had lost many it could not replace, so prudence was needed. She also cites the chief of staff of Japan's Manchurian army making the same point: if you start a fire, you have to put it out. Paine's gloss is that it was time to call the American fire department.

Money. A third explanation uses a non-military instrument of national power. Both countries borrowed to fight the war. Japan's battlefield successes lowered its interest rates, and it secured its last two loans after Mukden, so it had the finances even though it lacked the men. Russia had already suffered a recession and a bad harvest the year before the war, which hurt government revenue. After Mukden, when Russia badly needed another loan, no one would take it. After the Portsmouth treaty, Russia did raise a loan, and Paine says it needed the money just to bring its troops back from Asia to European Russia. On this view, Nicholas's piggy bank had run dry.

Tsushima. The fourth explanation is the naval battle, which Paine calls extraordinarily lopsided. Russia did not need to fight at sea at all, since its supplies came over the Trans-Siberian Railway and nothing came by sea, and conditions on land were improving for Russia daily. Nicholas fought anyway and lost his entire fleet. Japan lost three torpedo boats and captured a number of Russian ships, so its fleet actually grew as a result of the battle. The few Russian vessels that made it home were small and obsolete.

Sakhalin. The last candidate is Japan's seizure of Sakhalin Island at the very end of the war. According to Paine, Roosevelt suggested Japan take it because Russia could do nothing to stop it, and Japan could then trade it back at the peace talks for things it actually cared about. For Russia, losing its own territory, and given the racial prejudices of the time, losing it to an Asian country, was a serious blow to prestige. For Japan, Sakhalin offered good fishing grounds and "great crab" but was not central. Perhaps, Paine suggests, this was what finally broke Nicholas's Bologna flask.

She does not choose among the five. She observes that some countries fight on indefinitely, often because they face unlimited objectives that put them on death ground, while Nicholas's flask did shatter. A decade later he was dead for losing World War I: "a devoted husband, a beloved dad, and incompetent tsar."

Why Japan's Termination Was a Model

Paine summarizes why she treats this as model war termination. Japan achieved its war objective and got Korea. It also gained a large sphere of influence in southern Manchuria (she notes Manchuria is the size of Germany and France combined), including Russia's expensive railway concession, the naval base, and its equipment. It got the southern half of Sakhalin, which Russia was willing to trade. And the outcome confirmed the result of the First Sino-Japanese War of 1894–95, when Japan had defeated China, the largest land empire in Asia: Japan was the dominant regional power in Asia.

The Gulf War: A War the U.S. Didn't Pay For

Paine's second success story is the 1991 Gulf War, which she says turned out even better, because the United States didn't pay for it and very few people died on the coalition side. Saddam Hussein was broke after his war with Iran. He invaded Kuwait to wipe out his war debt to Kuwait and to take its oil fields; combined with Iraq's, those fields might have made Iraq the oil market's swing producer with a dominant position.

She stresses a general difficulty with limited wars. In an unlimited war the objective is obvious: regime change. In a limited war, objectives lie along a continuum from the most minor aim up to regime change, and there can be deep disagreement about where to land. Governments often do not state their limited objectives explicitly, perhaps hoping to get a bit more, which leaves military officers unsure what they are trying to achieve. In the Gulf War, President George H. W. Bush spelled it out in National Security Directive 54, and the United States achieved each goal. Iraq was forced out of Kuwait, the Kuwaiti government was restored, and American lives were protected, since Americans had been gotten out of Iraq with allied help even before the fighting. Together these promoted, though they did not create, security and stability in the Persian Gulf.

Then there was the cost. By Paine's figures, the 34 coalition partners sent over 200,000 troops alongside America's 700,000, paid the United States over $50 billion to cover its costs, and paid about $14 billion more to other coalition partners. Iraq lost between 20,000 and 35,000 military dead and up to 3,000 civilians killed by bombing. The coalition lost 392 dead in total, 258 of them Americans. She says she knows of no other war involving about a million combatants in which one side's death rate was so low.

She draws a parallel with 1904. Russia had been diplomatically isolated while Japan had the Anglo-Japanese alliance, with Britain as a silent partner. Iraq was even more isolated, with nearly all the world's rich countries and most of its neighbors lined up against it. Facing a massive coalition, she concludes, does not go well.

30:32

Korea: Geography, Big Friends, and Shifting War Aims

The Korean War went much less well, Paine says, though it did at least end with one of the goals the United States had held at one point: a return to the prewar status quo of a divided peninsula.

She starts with geography. The land border between North and South Korea is only 250 kilometers, which looks manageable. The rest of the peninsula has long maritime borders, which a dominant naval power like the United States could blockade, especially against an enemy with no navy. That allows carrier aircraft and naval gunfire to reach much of the country, and many Korean railways ran along the coast within range. The problem is the northern border. The border with Russia is short, about 17 kilometers by her recollection, but the border with China runs over 1,400 kilometers, and in Mao's day Manchuria held China's industrial base. The theater could never be isolated, since the enemy had powerful friends with an uninterrupted supply line. Both sides had big backers pouring in aid, and in that setup, Paine says, the war goes on for a long time, many people die, and much territory is wrecked.

What made it worse was indecision about war aims. Japan in 1904 knew its minimum objective and Bush knew his in 1991, but in Korea the United States couldn't decide whether it wanted only the southern half, a return to prewar lines, or, while it was winning, the whole peninsula, which is an unlimited objective. Paine says this waffling was very costly. She quotes Clausewitz to the effect that the political objective is always primary: there is no alternative to subordinating the military point of view to the political. The political object, the original motive for the war, determines both the military objective, such as how far up the peninsula to go, and the effort required. Deciding to take the whole peninsula because it looked militarily possible meant letting the military objective drive policy.

33:46

Clausewitz's Two Kinds of War and Sun Tzu's Death Ground

Paine sees part of Clausewitz's brilliance in the claim that the fundamental way to classify wars is by their ends, not by the resources poured into them. Wars range, in the passage she quotes, from wars of extermination down to simple armed observation, but ultimately there are only two kinds. One aims to overthrow the enemy, making him politically helpless or militarily impotent so that he must sign whatever peace is dictated. That is the unlimited objective. The other aims merely to occupy some of his frontier districts, either to annex them or to use them as bargaining chips at the peace talks.

For unlimited wars she pairs Clausewitz with Sun Tzu's concept of death ground: ground on which an army survives only by fighting with the courage of desperation. With an unlimited objective, the enemy regime at minimum faces annihilation, and if there are genocidal aims against the population, so do the people. People in that position fight to the death. Paine points to Ukraine as an example in her audience's own lifetime: the Ukrainians have defied the expectations of those who don't understand death ground, because Russia has put them on it, and they are not giving up if they can avoid it.

She sums up the asymmetry, which she calls counterintuitive but useful. Unlimited wars are conceptually simple, since everyone understands regime change, but hard to execute, because putting people on death ground makes them fight desperately and can turn a failed state into a lethal adversary. Limited wars are conceptually hard, because there will be arguments over the optimal objective, but easier to execute, especially if the objective is narrow enough that the enemy does not consider conceding it terrible. In an unlimited war the defeated side has no choices. The United States kept Emperor Hirohito rather than executing him because he was useful: he would sign documents such as the constitution and lend legitimacy to the American reform program. It was still an unlimited war against Japan. In a limited war the defeated government survives, you must negotiate with it whether you like it or not, and it may come back to cause trouble.

Korea Passed the Culminating Point Twice

Returning to Korea, Paine argues that the culminating point of victory was exceeded not once but twice. Kim Il-sung invaded the South expecting to win if it stayed a two-party fight, and he was right as he raced down the peninsula, until he triggered "the third-party intervention from hell" by the United States and its UN partners. A civil war became a regional war with the potential to go global, at much higher cost. She suggests he might have done better with a slow insurgency.

Then it was the United States' turn. MacArthur's landing at Inchon, halfway up the peninsula, went very well, and he aimed to reunify the whole country because it was militarily possible. When his forces approached the Chinese border, China entered with hundreds of thousands of troops, creating an entirely different war, and before long MacArthur was relieved. Paine mentions there is a whole story on the Chinese side that she lacks time for. The result was a divided peninsula at high cost. She notes that exceeding the culminating point of victory shows up as paying far more than necessary. The minimum objective, keeping South Korea in existence, was achieved, but American troops have been stationed there ever since, which is expensive.

She recommends thinking in terms of culminating points before and during wars, and applies the question to Ukraine: what would it take for either side to reach its culminating point of victory, whether that point is reachable, and whether particular campaigns can reach their culminating points of attack. She repeats that a key sign a victory is going sour is third-party intervention.

39:44

Pathology One: Regional Wars That Go Global

The American Revolution. The colonists had no intention of changing the regime in London, so their war was limited from their side. London, however, wanted to eliminate the Continental Army and the Continental Congress, which amounted to regime change, so the colonists were on death ground and fought harder. The theater was large and the war dragged on, giving Britain's many rivals time to weigh their options. France allied with the colonies in 1778, Spain allied with France in 1779, and Britain attacked the Dutch in 1780. The fighting spread: the French at Savannah, the Spanish in Louisiana, a French plan to invade England via the Isle of Wight, the naval battle at Ushant, Franco-Spanish attacks on Gibraltar and Minorca, French attacks on British possessions off Africa, British attacks on French possessions at Mahé and Pondicherry in India, and heavy fighting in the Caribbean, where the valuable sugar islands were. Britain reassessed, decided the rebellious colonies weren't worth much at the time compared with the Caribbean, and pulled out.

World War I. Paine says this war worked out badly for everyone. Before it began, each power expected a short regional war in which it would take some territory in Europe or force a defeated rival to cede colonies elsewhere. The problem was that everyone wanted something different, even within alliances. Britain wanted the status quo and no one else did. France wanted Alsace-Lorraine back from the Franco-Prussian War. Italy wanted territory in the eastern Mediterranean. Russia wanted the Balkans, and in particular wanted Austria-Hungary out of Serbia, which Austria-Hungary would not accept after Serbian nationalists killed the Habsburg heir. Austria-Hungary and the Ottomans each wanted more of the Balkans, and Germany wanted colonies. Objectives and primary theaters did not align even among allies, producing parallel wars over different places. As more countries joined, the war people ended up in was very different from the one they had started. No one could settle, because no alliance could devise terms that satisfied all its own members, let alone offer the other side enough to quit, and no one dared abandon allies they could not fight without. So the war went on and on.

Japan from Manchuria to Pearl Harbor. Paine begins with the Great Depression. The "original America Firsters" wanted to protect American jobs and passed the Smoot-Hawley Tariff. Economists warned President Hoover that trading partners would retaliate and global trade would suffer. He signed it anyway, partners retaliated, and trade collapsed. She urges listeners to stop playing "half-court tennis," looking only at the American side of the net. Other countries were far more desperate than the United States, with nothing like its standard of living, and the deepening Depression created the conditions for someone like Hitler to take power. Japan had long cooperated with the international order and was a founding member of the League of Nations, which the United States had not joined. As a trade-dependent country cut off by its best trading partners, it turned to autarky: if its empire held enough resources, it would not need trade. It invaded Manchuria. That was a regional war, and "so far so good," as Paine puts it.

Japan then extended the program to all of China. Taking a large piece of China was bad enough, but trying to take all of it put the Chinese on death ground. China's quarreling factions stopped fighting each other, recognized Japan as an existential threat, and fought it to a stalemate. Japan's economy began to suffer, and under this Chinese victory-denial strategy it grew more desperate. It decided to cut off all foreign aid reaching the Nationalists, expecting them to collapse. Paine says Americans are remarkably self-focused about Pearl Harbor. On the same day, allowing for the date line, Japan also attacked Malaya, the Philippines, Singapore, Wake Island, Guam, Thailand, and the International Settlement in Shanghai, trying to eliminate everything that might help China. The move backfired badly. Far from leaving Asia, the great powers doubled down, and the United States, Britain, Australia, and New Zealand all joined the fight.

From these cases Paine draws common features of regional wars that go global. The theater is very large and hard to close off, so the intervening power becomes frustrated trying to garrison it. As the war drags on, third parties have time to intervene, which is when real trouble starts. If your enemy has friends, expect more trouble, especially if you pursue an unlimited objective, because the enemy will then fight indefinitely. And as your losses mount, you become less willing to compromise.

46:43

Pathology Two: Insurgency as Victory Denial

The second pathology is conventional victory followed by an insurgency that prevents any stabilization. Japan faced this in China. The occupied territory was useless to Japan until it could be stabilized, and Japan wanted to earn income from it, not spend money garrisoning it. Japan kept defeating the Nationalist armies in conventional battles, but the Nationalists always reconstituted and fought on, and both Nationalists and Communists also fielded separate guerrilla forces. This left Japan with a dilemma. Concentrating to fight the conventional armies left the rear open to guerrillas, and dispersing to secure the rear freed the enemy's regular army to act.

Paine says this expensive approach was pioneered by the United States itself. George Washington's Continental Army forced the British army to concentrate while militias operated across the country. Washington was not keen on the militias at first, but by the end of the war he understood their value. It was a cost-imposition strategy that relied on another Clausewitzian concept, the value of the object: how much the political objective is worth to each side. Washington counted on Americans valuing the objective more than the British did, and Paine says that tends to hold. For people in the theater it is home and existential, so they value it highly, while an intervening power values it less the farther away it is. The insurgent's aim is to raise costs until the outsider leaves. She says this strategy has been used against the United States repeatedly, "much to U.S. sorrow," in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and each time the United States eventually called it a day.

49:00

Iraq 2003: Regime Change and What Comes After

Paine contrasts the second Iraq war with the first. The first had limited objectives; the second had an unlimited one, regime change in Baghdad. Toppling the regime proved easy. The problem, in her blunt phrasing, is that after regime change "the loaded diaper is yours."

She describes Iraq and its neighbors as mosaic societies made up of many peoples. In Iraq, she says, primary identities seem tied more to ethnicity than to the nation, and nearly any group on an ethnic map might want to kill one or two others, and vice versa. That makes building state institutions very difficult. She contrasts Korea, where Koreans do not dispute their national identity and the fight is over state institutions. Where there isn't even a shared national identity and people are killing each other over it, she argues, state institutions cannot be built.

She says geography made things worse, and this could have been known in advance. In the 1991 war the coalition dealt with about 158 miles of border. Occupying all of Iraq meant dealing with over 2,000 miles of border, which is hard to seal off from interested parties. Three of the neighbors, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Turkey, have serious ambitions for regional influence and would get involved whether the United States liked it or not. It doesn't take much outside involvement to set things off. Sometimes one car bomb is enough: the bombing of a sacred Shia shrine set off a major sectarian war. Places like this, she says, are extremely hard to stabilize.

51:19

Questions to Ask Before Any War

Paine closes with questions to ask before entering a war and during an ongoing one. Who is involved, and who has an interest? Then comes what she calls her big matrix: who has limited and who has unlimited objectives, and against whom, whether one neighbor, several, or all. Her example is that Russia has an unlimited objective toward Ukraine, while Ukraine has a limited objective toward Russia. How do the policy objectives of all the parties line up, and how do the primary adversaries align? What are the relative values of the object: for whom is the war existential, and for whom merely nice to have? She says she would wager that the outcome in Ukraine matters more to Ukrainians than to Russians. Russia has suffered very large losses, so the war does matter to Russians, but it matters more to Ukrainians because it is where they live. Finally, she says to look at geographic access and sanctuary: are some places invulnerable to attack, leaving you little leverage over them, and are there asymmetries in any of this? Working through these questions, she says, gives a sense of who can actually align with whom and who cannot. She presents the matrix as a framework for analysis, not a prediction of how the war in Ukraine will end.