Engaged in Their 40s With $265,000 in Cash: Ramit Sethi Pushes a Couple From Tracking Money to Planning With It
I Will Teach You To Be RichNicole (40) and Shane (48) have been together about eight months and are getting married in 11 days. Between them they earn $241,000 a year and have a net worth of about $588,000. On paper they have done a lot right. But until now each has managed money alone and in very different ways. Nicole read I Will Teach You to Be Rich three years ago and built what she calls a "rich life" for one: travel, dining out, and the occasional $500 dress. Shane describes himself as a natural saver whose job covers almost all his living expenses.
The episode asks how two separate, reasonably successful financial lives become one shared plan, especially with a baby and a large drop in Nicole's income ahead. Ramit Sethi's view builds through the conversation. The couple's mechanics are good, but their numbers are tangled, too much money sits idle, and they have never connected their spending to a vision of the future.
Sethi opens with his own experience. For decades he never had to explain his automated money system to anyone. When he and his now-wife started talking seriously about money, he says, he had to accept that the era of total control was over. His system was now "our money," and that meant conversations and sometimes being wrong.
"You spend $10,000 a month?"
Shane describes the first time money came up. While they were flirting, Nicole told him she made $12,000 a month. Then she asked him to guess how much she spent. He guessed $4,000, then $6,000, then $8,000, each time getting "no." The answer was about $10,000. He admits he was "very scared." It contradicted his whole idea of saving and spending.
Nicole says she knew her spending was higher than his. She travels a lot, her current location is more expensive than where she lived before, and her business clients spend heavily. She immediately felt she had to explain herself: of that $10,000, she said, $3,000 goes to savings each month, and she tracks every dollar. Sethi notices she is doing the same thing on the show, justifying her spending to him. Asked why she did it with Shane, she says she really liked him and didn't want to scare him away.
"I feel judged by my lifestyle"
Sethi reads from Nicole's application. She wrote that she has been living her rich life, is unsure how to fit a marriage and a child into it, and that her current lifestyle won't sustain those changes. She noted that Shane's housing, food, and utilities are covered, and wrote, "I feel judged by my lifestyle."
She explains that now they are combining finances, she questions purchases she never used to think about, such as whether she can still buy a $500 dress. In her single rich life that was fine, and she wants it to still be fine as a couple. She allows that some of this may be something she needs to reconcile within herself.
Shane reflects that he has "raised an eyebrow" at some of her purchases, often through humor, and that some of them made him uncomfortable. His worry is how they will start a family or buy a house without a savings strategy. He apologizes, saying he never meant to judge her, only to understand her.
Nicole then describes her system. After reading the book she set up five savings accounts for her priorities. These include travel, "extravagance" (the $500 dress has become a running joke), a large dining-out budget because she rarely cooks, and paying for her sister's children's schooling. She says she feels great about these buckets, and mentions trips to Switzerland, Germany, and Austria. Sethi approves: this is spending intentionally on things she can afford.
Shane has nothing like this. He says he envies the intentionality, but has never needed it. With few fixed costs, if he wants a nice jacket, fishing gear, or a ski trip, he buys it without checking his savings, because he knows the money is there.
Two unusual jobs and an income about to be cut in half
Nicole runs a babysitting and nanny placement service. Families book through an app, and she distributes jobs to a roster of sitters. She also works directly for three or four families, mostly traveling with them. Shane works for a nonprofit long-term residential recovery program for college-aged young men. He was recently promoted to acting chief operating officer and vice president of operations. He lives at the facility, which covers housing, food, utilities, cable, and sometimes transportation. Only his cell phone is his own expense. After the wedding he will move into Nicole's rental.
The pressure point is the baby they hope to have soon. Nicole won't be able to travel for weeks or months at a time. That direct work, roughly half her income, will go away, though she will keep running the agency. Both want her to stay home with the child. Asked what the solution is, Nicole's first answer is that her spending needs to go down, since she won't need a travel fund. Shane expects them to manage but says they have been too busy to sit down and plan. He wants Nicole to be happy and not feel she is making a huge sacrifice.
The net worth picture: similar results from very different stories
Filling out the Conscious Spending Plan (CSP) together held no surprises, they say, since they had already talked through their numbers.
- Nicole: assets $20,000 (car and jewelry), investments $96,400, savings $100,000, debt $4,300 (LASIK surgery on a 0% plan, with money already set aside). Net worth $220,700.
- Shane: assets $225,000 (a townhouse, a car, and a boat), investments $143,500, savings $165,000, debt $167,364 (student loans and mortgage). Net worth $366,136.
Sethi points out that Nicole earns more, but Shane's net worth is about $140,000 higher. More striking, he says, is how close their savings and investments are, given the stories they tell: Nicole as the big spender, Shane as the saver who banks everything. Shane reflects that if Nicole is in a similar position while doing everything she wants, maybe his shock wasn't warranted. Sethi's takeaway is that their feelings about money don't seem to track how much is in the bank.
Nicole grosses $10,192 a month. Shane grosses $9,949, up from roughly $6,000 before his promotion, about a 50% raise. Combined, that is $241,000 a year, and both knew the figure. Nicole's one worry is that her side is about to drop.
The prenup they let go
Asked about a prenup, both say no. Nicole raised it, Shane gave her "a side eye," and he half-joked that the conversation usually goes the other way. He said a prenup could invalidate their love and commitment.
Sethi argues that what look like gender issues are often power issues. When a man raises a prenup, the woman often objects that it's unromantic, and people call it a gender dynamic. When a high-earning woman raises it, he says, the man often says "exactly the same thing," word for word. Gender still matters, he adds, but so does power.
Nicole says she considered pushing but chose to support Shane. They are marrying in the Catholic church, she sees marriage as forever, and she trusts in her "heart of hearts" that he would never come after her company. She also recalled Sethi saying on past episodes that his own prenup process was hard.
Sethi calls letting it go "a huge mistake." Some questions, he says, can't be dropped once asked. When he raised a prenup with his now-wife Cassandra, he did it knowing it would happen. He explained why it mattered and why he was nervous. Her response was that she hadn't expected it but was willing to learn. The process got harder once lawyers were involved and numbers went back and forth. After months, Cassandra suggested a therapist, who helped them see how differently they viewed money, and how much trust, fear, and pride the prenup represented. Those conversations, he says, brought them much closer. He notes it is historically unusual for a woman to raise a prenup but increasingly common. When one partner has a business, rental properties, or a complex portfolio, he recommends at least exploring one.
Low fixed costs, and a business mixed into personal money
Their combined fixed costs are just 36% of take-home pay, which Sethi calls remarkably low. The main reason is Nicole's rent. She moved to coastal Connecticut during COVID and got a very good deal on an apartment they will keep. Shane estimates it would cost at least $3,000 today. Sethi says this explains a lot: Nicole's individual fixed costs of 49% rest mostly on very cheap housing, which is what makes the coat and the dress affordable.
Then he finds $750 a month of business expenses (website, marketing, text messaging) on Nicole's personal CSP, and learns her business income is in there too. He asks if she has a business credit card. Nicole pauses and says, "Oh god." Sethi says that pause "explains everything."
Nicole defends the setup. She says it is organized, and she lists items like dining out as fixed costs because she budgets for them. The business costs will continue even if her personal travel income stops. Sethi agrees the $750 doesn't materially change the numbers. If it were $7,500, they would have to redo everything. But he insists the business needs its own savings, checking, credit card, and expense tracking, possibly through QuickBooks or his friend Mike Michalowicz's book. The CSP is for personal money.
When he asks why she has no accountant, Nicole says her grandfather, 91, does her taxes. Sethi tells her an accountant would say the same things: get a business card and don't commingle funds.
The rest of the fixed costs draw little concern. Groceries are low at $500 because they eat out. Each spends about $300 a month on clothes. Nicole's subscriptions run about $497, mostly a $150 gym membership plus fitness apps and streaming. With combined fixed costs at 36%, Sethi says, he has little to say.
Investing: good mechanics, market timing, and no projections
They invest 14% combined. Nicole puts $883 a month (9%) into a 401(k). Shane puts $512 into his 401(k) and $1,000 into a brokerage account. He buys researched blue chips and ETFs, and admits he tries to time the market. When prices dip, he pulls a lump from savings, buys a batch of stocks once or twice a year, and forgets about it.
Sethi calls market timing "extremely detrimental to returns," one of the worst things an investor can do. But he credits Shane with being engaged and consistent, and says a few changes could turn $1,500 a month into a lot of money.
Nicole says she has never projected what their investments might become in 10 or 15 years. Shane adds that they each reached about $100,000 and don't know how to get to the next level. Sethi finds this insightful. He says you can brute-force your way to $10,000, $25,000, even $100,000 with a high income. But without understanding how it works, it's like getting lucky in Vegas. Not projecting is a red flag to him. Without knowing how much you'll have and what lifestyle you're working toward, he says, "all of this is just playing in the weeds."
42% saved, and far too much sitting in cash
Their savings rate is 42%: 47% for Shane, 38% for Nicole. Vacation savings are $150 (Shane) and $450 (Nicole), which Sethi says fits her travel priorities. Shane saves $1,000 a month for gifts, Nicole $100. They also add $400 a month combined to an emergency fund, on top of $265,000 already in cash.
"You have pretty much way too much in savings," Sethi says. Shane agrees this is the scariest part: much of it sits in a credit union and accounts not earning high interest. Nicole explains her $100,000 partly as working capital, since she pays sitters before families pay her. Sethi accepts that the business may need cash for payroll, but says that cash belongs in a business account. If $80,000 of it is for the business, move it there. The remaining $20,000 needs to be put to work. As it is, he says, their money is "like a sloppy junk drawer."
Another junk drawer is a single savings category for the wedding, honeymoon, children's tuition, baby, and a house, which gets almost $5,000 a month. The house portion is about $2,000 each. They expect to buy in no less than five years, at around $450,000 to $500,000, needing roughly $100,000 down, which they already have.
Sethi's diagnosis is that their ground-level mechanics are strong: low fixed costs, dedicated named accounts. They have also talked about a future, such as kids and no house for five years. What's missing is the middle layer: how much do we need, what are we saving for, what will we have at retirement? Without it, he suspects, they either keep saving without a goal or have random disagreements. A clear target, like "save for 17 more months and we're done," would feel good. Shane agrees, saying he checked his balances maybe six times a year and felt fine because they kept rising. Sethi compares that to a baker judging a pie because "it's rising." At their level, with hundreds of thousands of dollars and a house and kids on the horizon, he says they need to understand more. (He then jokes about the bakers who will correct him online.)
Guilt-free spending that doesn't add up
Nicole's guilt-free spending is listed at just $348 a month. Shane's is around a thousand, spent on fishing and ski gear, coffee, eating out, and gifts. Nicole says her number is low because dining out and dresses are already in fixed costs and savings, so it's "not accurate, but it is accurate."
Sethi moves her $500 dining-out and $300 clothing lines into guilt-free spending. That raises it to $1,148 (12%) and lowers her fixed costs to 41%. Her savings rate of 38% next to an investment rate of 9% "doesn't make sense" for someone who is 40, he says. He also doesn't believe $1,148 covers her lifestyle.
Nicole points him to a tab tracking every expense this month: Pottery Barn and a $42 gift, a $381 hotel, a $65 health membership, a $140 gift, vitamins, movie food, $475 of clothing, a $118 dinner. More important, she says, her total shows she is $2,498 over what she made this month. Sethi asks what's wrong with the sheet. She identifies both problems: she's over her allotment, and her business is mixed in.
Because of the mixing, Sethi says, no one can tell whether she's up or down personally. He adds the liability point: if someone sues the business, commingled accounts expose personal money, and Shane will soon be exposed too. He asks her to strip out the business, analyze three to six months of personal spending, and look for trends. He guesses her real discretionary spending is double or triple the CSP figure. When he asks what her haircut cost, she says she cuts it herself. He calls that a good answer and allows he might be wrong. Nicole agrees to find the actual numbers instead of defending herself.
Sethi explains why the mess is survivable for now. Nicole has so much cash that she can "float" shortfalls, probably more often than she realizes. He has seen couples with the same tangle who were two months from running out of money without knowing it. They could float for six months or even five years before hitting a wall. He doesn't think Nicole faces that risk. Her risk is not having enough as she gets older.
He describes a pattern he sees often: one partner, "almost always the woman" in heterosexual couples, tracks every dollar in color-coded spreadsheets but can't say what the numbers mean. "You are not a stenographer," he says. The job is to know key numbers cold: Are we saving enough? Are investments on track? Have we defined our rich life together, and are we using money to live it?
A $1.7 million retirement that isn't enough
Asked what they'll have when Shane turns 65, Shane guesses about $600,000 and Nicole guesses $1 million. Sethi's projection is $1.7 million. Shane calls that great. Nicole says it isn't enough for where they live, with a child in private school and her not working.
Sethi explains the 4% rule, which he calls simple back-of-the-napkin math. Withdrawing about 4% a year from retirement on should mean not running out of money. That's roughly $68,000 a year for both of them. Adding a loosely estimated $50,000–$60,000 in Social Security brings it to about $130,000. Both say it's not enough. Shane concludes they need to learn to invest now. Nicole's reaction is that she needs to cut her spending significantly.
Sethi questions that reflex. Halving her $1,148 of discretionary spending frees about $500 a month, which isn't much. The real money is the $100,000 sitting in her savings, from which she could invest a lump sum of $50,000. He stresses that he doesn't "want" anything in particular. They need to define their rich life and reallocate accordingly. But they can't decide what to change without an honest accounting, and he can't even tell whether that $50,000 is needed for the business. He adds that $1.7 million may be optimistic, since Nicole's income will fall and she expects to be out of work at least a year after the baby.
How Nicole's business works
Nicole says the agency's income is fairly steady at about $5,000–$6,000 a month. She recently hired a marketing team to grow it so it can support her stepping back, and she has started doula training so she can work closer to home with a baby. What varies is her own work: in October she didn't work a single day. She charges $500 a day as a nanny, including when traveling. She has gone to Spain, Scotland, Ireland, London, and Hawaii, sitting wherever the family sits, including first class, with all expenses covered.
She started babysitting on the side of a full-time job to pay off her student loans. Referrals grew beyond what she could handle, so she hired friends and brokered the jobs. Families paid her, and she paid the sitters. She eventually saved enough to build a booking platform that notifies sitters and handles communication with clients. Sethi highlights the business as an example of what's possible in an industry that serves wealthy families.
The corrected numbers: spending everything she makes
To model the coming income drop, Sethi first needs Nicole's real take-home pay. The CSP showed about $9,500 net on $10,000 gross. Nicole says taxes come out of yet another savings account. Sethi estimates her net at around $7,000. With that correction, her fixed costs are actually 55%, not low. Investments are 13%, savings 51%, and she appears to be spending more than she makes each month.
Shane weighs in. This is the root of his apprehension. Nicole sends him Zillow listings and schools for children not yet born, and he wonders how that fits with her spending. They joke that after the wedding they'll "reel it in," but he hates the idea of putting guardrails on her. Sethi tells him not to. But he says he is uncovering a worldview that concerns him: the system works only because of the cash buffer.
Nicole says she spends about what she makes, over some months and under others, and that it works because "I can always take another job." Sethi calls this a gig worker's mentality, the "I'll pick up another shift" mindset. She is well paid, he says, but at some point that option disappears, and the baby is exactly that point. Nicole agrees everything would need to drop by half. She isn't sure she can keep contributing $2,900 a month toward the house.
Shane explains where that figure came from. When they met, Nicole was house shopping. Based on the homes she was viewing, he figured she could afford about a $4,000 mortgage. Given her low rent, he suggested she put at least $2,000 a month into a high-yield savings account, which he would match. Sethi calls that reasonable foresight but asks whether anyone suggested investing the money, since no purchase is planned for at least five years. Nicole says she had. The response was to wait and hear what Sethi said on the show.
Tracking as comfort
Asked what her meticulous tracking gets her, Nicole says it tells her whether she's over or under. She adjusts around her irregular work. In August she works every day and spends almost nothing because clients cover her expenses. In months like October and November she spends less. After a long explanation she ends with, "I just like it." Sethi thinks that's the real reason: it feels comforting, like control. She says her spending nets out about the same each month anyway. He points out that this works at $10,000 gross, not at $5,000. People earning $35,000 need line-item tracking because they have no margin.
Sethi then addresses viewers who complain that guests arrive with inaccurate CSPs and want his team to clean them up beforehand. He refuses. Most people don't track at all, and when they do, it's wrong. The point, he says, is to show real messiness, "shoes all over the place" and "a spoon in the bathroom sink." Here, simply entering net income in the wrong place threw off every downstream number. Nicole's cash buffer masks these weaknesses, and he says business owners who move money around are especially prone to this.
Where their habits came from
Shane's father carried a wad of cash. He once held up a $100 bill and told Shane it was "just paper," that they'll make more, so don't let money control you. He was a bookmaker in the days before online gambling. Sethi admits he first imagined a literary figure. The business was all cash, with no investing. Shane says his father "broke even in life" and left him nothing. His mother was the saver. His father would hand her a couple hundred dollars a week to put away, and she kept a stash for when the family needed something. She always worked, cleaning houses, babysitting, or holding part-time jobs.
His parents spent their money on him, including private Catholic school, where he saw how wealthier families lived. What they lacked, he says, was investing for their future. Shane doesn't gamble. His father taught him the house always wins and told him never to put a dollar in a slot machine. Sethi reflects on how parents pass down tacit knowledge. He mentions a former trainer who posted videos of his kids kicking balls, and says his own parents did the same with academics.
Nicole's mother controlled the household finances. Her father had to hand over ATM receipts, and the refrain was "We don't have money for that." With only $100 a year for school supplies and clothes, Nicole got a job at 14. Her most influential financial figure is her grandfather, who worked full-time, ran a tax service on the side, and kept doing taxes until he retired at 88. He lived the luxurious life she wanted. But now in his 90s, he and her grandmother want to stay at home, and the in-home care is very expensive. Watching someone who "did everything right" strain to afford it has put her in "panic mode." Sethi tells her directly that she won't have that much unless she changes.
Through Sethi's probing questions, Nicole says she does bring a desire for a luxurious life and a desire for control, though she'd like to let go of it. She says she doesn't bring scarcity. She hated "we don't have money for that," which is why she built side income so she'd never have to say no. Shane says her upbringing explains her relationship with money: she can always make more. Nicole sees more of his mother's saving instinct than his father's spending in their relationship.
Asked for words describing their money identity as a couple, Nicole says "confused," because of the messy business and personal money. Shane says "unsettling and unplanned." Sethi calls these honest. He adds that the wedding and the new year won't fix any of it. The underlying issues have to be examined and improved together.
Dream versus vision
Starting from a blank page, Shane lists private education for their children, a boat, the ocean, a house on the coast, and travel. Nicole lists private education and travel, and wants to replace dining out with dinners at home together. Sethi says that list on the East Coast could cost close to a million, and asks how much is a dream and how much is a vision they can reasonably achieve.
They refine it. The coastal house is a low priority. Private school is about $30,000 a year locally, not the $60,000 Sethi guessed. Shane wants a bigger boat, around $50,000. Nicole spends about $7,500 a year on travel and would halve it for smaller trips.
Shane says he doesn't want Nicole to go through years of austerity, since adjusting downward is harder than adjusting up. He asks whether she'll be happy two years from now without this lifestyle. Nicole says yes. She loves the $500 dress, but family and a husband matter far more, and she won't feel resentment. She is nervous about buying a house because she'd rather have flexibility, travel, private school, and staying home. Shane says he doesn't care where he lives. Sethi agrees with them and makes one request: Nicole needs to stop sending Zillow links. It's a habit, he says, but it sends mixed messages to her partner and to herself. She calls that fair.
Rebuilding the spending plan live
Sethi models a 50% income drop: Nicole at $5,000 gross and about $3,800 net. Because moving in together combines two incomes without adding rent, joint fixed costs are still only 47%. He normally recommends 50–60%. Many people he talks to are at 62%, 64%, even 73%, which is why they feel stressed.
To show how much the cheap rent matters, he plugs in a new place at $3,600, and fixed costs immediately exceed 60%. Raising groceries to $1,000 for eating at home brings it to 67%. Adding $800 a month for baby costs brings it to 74%. Shane observes that if they lived like most people, they'd be stressed. Sethi says this is what planning is for: decisions like leaving a job, timing a baby, or moving, not last month's dress.
With rent restored and the baby line temporarily removed, fixed costs are 51%. Both agree the roughly 9% of margin should go to investments. Savings are now 64%, about $7,000 a month, which Sethi calls "insane." Shane suggests investing $5,000 of it and Nicole suggests $4,000. Sethi notes they're picking numbers out of the air. What matters is proportion. He makes these changes:
- Vacation savings drop from $600 to $400 a month, about $5,000 a year with a buffer.
- Gift savings are cut to $200 a month.
- Emergency fund contributions go to zero. With $265,000 in cash, the fund is full, and the money is better invested.
- Baby savings come back at $1,200 a month at Nicole's request, pushing fixed costs to 62%.
- The two remaining savings lines are cut to $1,000 each.
Sethi says 62% is over his recommendation, but he gives new parents extra grace. It's fine to save and invest less for a while, because that's what money is for. Nicole's $2,000 line funds her sister's children's schooling, which she calls non-negotiable. Asked what his $1,000 is for, Shane says he doesn't know, which Sethi praises as honest. They decide it's for their future child's tuition. Since that starts around age eight, Sethi suggests investing it and looking into tax-advantaged options such as a 529, though he says he doesn't know the rules for private school tuition. He compares it to his own decision with his wife to invest their down payment money because they didn't plan to buy for a decade.
Now they are investing 31% and saving 15%, but guilt-free spending is negative $389. Making $179,000 in take-home pay and being unable to afford coffee makes no sense, Sethi says. They are overinvesting for their current cash flow. Shane suggests working backward from a target retirement income.
What really moves the number: time
In Sethi's investment calculator, starting with $239,900 and 17 years until Shane turns 65, the result is about $2.1 million, or roughly $84,000 a year at 4%. Both say it's too low, though closer. Sethi compares it with their $179,000 current take-home. Shane jokes about winning the lottery ("smoking like the son of a bookie," Sethi teases). Then Shane suggests a raise and Nicole suggests growing the agency. Sethi adds more options: Nicole could keep working, they could skip private school, either could start a side business, or they could invest some of their cash.
Shane proposes investing $100,000, $50,000 each. Adding $50,000 raises the projection only to about $2.2 million, and $100,000 to about $2.4 million, because 17 years is not much compounding time. Extending the timeline shows the effect of time: 18 years gives about $2.6 million, 19 about $2.8 million, 20 about $3.1 million, and 25 about $4.6 million. Asked what this says about their past behavior, Shane says it hasn't been responsible for the retirement they want. Sethi says letting money sit in savings has cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars, and that all the category tracking "isn't worth 12 months of this compounding." His takeaway is to start investing aggressively today. Nicole notes she has at least 25 years. Sethi says running out of money isn't their problem. The question is whether they'll have the lifestyle they want.
The last adjustments, and what stays open
Nicole points out they still have no fun money in the plan. She adds that the baby is at least a year away, so she wants to invest aggressively for the next two years while she can still work. Sethi's own approach would be to keep a year of fixed costs as an emergency fund. At about $6,800 a month, that's roughly $82,000, plus perhaps an extra $20,000–$30,000 to be conservative. The remaining $150,000–$170,000 or so could be invested if a higher net worth is the goal. Both agree.
He moves the $550 a month for Nicole's niece or nephew into fixed costs as tuition and eliminates the $300 monthly clothing line. Fixed costs land at 65%. That's workable, he says, but only without a new car and without moving. Cutting one investment line from $1,000 to $500 leaves them investing 26%, with guilt-free spending at $411 a month (4%). Sethi thinks that's too low for two people. Nicole wants it to feel "a little limiting" because the long-term goals now matter more to her than dining out.
Sethi stresses that this isn't about perfect math. There's too much uncertainty: when the baby comes, when Shane retires, whether Nicole finds new income with a child, and tuition eight years out. What matters is general direction. The initial projection was clearly inadequate, and they adjusted quickly. He admits he doesn't know how a bigger boat or a coastal house fits their income. It may not, though renting a boat or similar creative options might. He also notes his model assumed Nicole's income was already halved, when she is actually still earning her full income until the baby arrives, extra money not accounted for anywhere. His closing advice: they have time before that income drops, and they should use it well. At 48 and 40, though, things need to come into sharp focus and the moves need to be aggressive.
In his wrap-up, Sethi credits them for sitting down 11 days before their wedding to ask what they have, what they can afford, and what their philosophy is, something he says most couples never do. His broader message is about uninvested cash beyond an emergency fund. He compares it to a bully kicking down your door daily to take $75 and tear it up. Leaving money in savings, he says, is "the math of compounding working against you."
Follow-up after the wedding
A few weeks later, now married, the couple reported several changes. They funded Roth IRAs. One of them had never had one and funded both the 2025 and 2026 contributions. Each moved $50,000 from savings into their individual investment accounts, and they plan to spread the purchases over six months "just in case anything happens in the market." Nicole separated her business expenses, opened a personal checking account apart from the business account, and they hired an accountant, with a first appointment coming up. They also opened a joint credit card to earn travel miles, supporting one of their shared priorities.
You spend 10 effing thousand a month.
Now that we're combining finances, can I buy this $500 dress now, or how does this work?
That's where some of my apprehension comes in. How is this going to work with the amount of money that she spends?
According to this, you might be spending more than you make every single month.
I'm pretty much spending exactly as much as I'm making.
Just because you write it all down in these spreadsheets doesn't mean that it's accurate or it's actually working. You don't have enough money to do all this stuff. Guilt-free spending, you're at a negative. It would make no sense for the two of you to be making $179,000 and not be able to go out to a coffee.
Investments are: Shane has 143K, Nicole has 96K. That's too low. You're 40. Is that right? You got to be investing. We got to put that money to work. What you are at risk for is not having enough money as you get older. You better start investing aggressively today.
For those of you in a relationship, when was the moment where you combined your finances? I'm not just talking about combining a bank account. I'm talking about when you really felt that you were a financial team. When you saw money not as mine and theirs, but ours.
I'll tell you that for me that shift was harder than I expected. I had been talking about money, thinking about money every single day for decades. Nobody asked me any questions about how my automation flows were set up. I never had to justify anything or discuss it. None of it.
When my now wife and I got engaged, we started seriously talking about money. Then we got married. That singledom, the total control over my money, I realized that chapter had to close, even though I was really proud of my system, my way of doing things. Now I realized it was about our money and us having conversations and sometimes me being wrong.
Today I am speaking with Nicole and Shane. They've been together for eight months. They're getting married in 11 days, and they're both in their 40s. She's 40, he's 48. And until now, they have spent years doing money their individual way.
Nicole read my book three years ago, and as a result, she built a rich life around travel and great food and buying a $500 dress whenever she feels like it. Shane is a natural saver. His job covers almost all of his living expenses, so money has never really stressed him out. They have two very different financial lives, and now they're trying to build one together.
Let's see what the numbers say on their Conscious Spending Plan. If you want my help with your own CSP, you can join my money coaching program at iwt.com/moneycoaching.
Assets: $245,000. Investments: $239,900. Savings: $265,000. Debt: $171,664. Net worth: $588,000. Fixed costs: 36%. Wow, that's low. Investments: 14%. Savings: 42%. That's interestingly high, and guilt-free spending very low at 8%.
Okay, right away you can see that they have done a lot right. But remember, Nicole built her rich life for one. The question is, how do they combine their finances to start working as a team? Let's find out.
So I understand that the two of you are recently engaged and planning a wedding. Congratulations. When's the wedding?
In 11 days.
How long have the two of you been together?
Since about May of this year.
Oh, hey, listen. My parents met. Seven days later, they were married. That's how it goes sometimes. Where did you all meet?
Online.
Okay, cool. And obviously I want to talk about money today and many other things, but what was the first time that money came up when the two of you were dating?
So, we were hanging out and we were talking about how much money we made per month, and she told me that she made $12,000 a month. And I was like, "Oh, you make more than I do. Congratulations." I was very proud of her, and she said, "Of that $12,000, how much do you think I spend per month?" It was kind of just a cute game. We were just flirting.
She has very fine tastes in things, and she doesn't let her money kind of bog her down in going after what she wants. So my guess was $4,000. And I was like, "That sounds about right." And she was like, "No." And I thought she was saying no, like I was high, but then I kind of looked at her facial expression and I'm like, "Oh, it's higher." And she's like, "Yeah."
And I was like, "Six." And she's like, "No." And I was like, "Now I'm sweating." I'm like, "Eight?" She's like, "No, baby." And I'm like, "Well, how much do you effing spend a month?" And she's like, "Ten." And I was like, "You spend 10 effing thousand a month? What do you spend all your money on?"
When you heard $10,000, what did you feel?
I was very scared. I didn't know how, because that's totally contradictory to, I guess, my vision of saving or spending. I just thought it was really high. And then she kind of told me what she spends her money on. And so that's kind of where our first conversation about money started.
What was your impression, Nicole, of that conversation?
I did think he was scared after that conversation, and we had had conversations prior about the way that I travel and that I do travel a lot, and that isn't something that he does. So I kind of knew that I was spending more. Plus, from where I lived and to where I live now, the spending changes quite a lot, and the clientele that I have for my business, they spend a lot of money.
So I remember thinking, "Oh, that was definitely more than he thought," but then feeling the need to sort of explain myself, like, "In that $10,000, $3,000 of that is savings every month." Because I track, as you might see on our expenses, I track every dollar I spend, only because I just wanted to know.
Are you explaining your own spending to me right now?
Yeah.
Why?
This is what I felt like I needed to do for him, so I did it.
Why?
Because I really liked him and I was excited and I knew this was going to be something, so I didn't want to scare him away with my spending.
I'd like to read something from your application, Nicole. You wrote, "I have been living my rich life, and now I am unsure of how to incorporate a marriage and child into it. My current lifestyle will not sustain these exciting changes. Shane has a unique living situation where all his housing, food, and utilities are covered. I feel judged by my lifestyle." What did you mean when you wrote that line in the application?
Now that we're combining finances, I do feel like, can I buy this $500 dress now, or how does this work? Because in my rich life that was fine, but now as a couple, I want it to still be fine. And maybe it's something I needed to reconcile with myself too. But before I wouldn't have thought anything of it, and now I'm thinking about these expenses in a way that I haven't before because it didn't really matter.
Shane, when you hear Nicole say, "I feel judged by my lifestyle," what's your reaction to that?
I guess initially, when I just heard you state that and her confirm that, I was trying to think back to when I've been judgmental. And I guess I've, using humor, raised an eyebrow at some of her purchases. I felt uncomfortable with some of her purchasing.
And I guess my worry is that how are we going to start a family and maybe buy a house down the road if we're not strategized to save to do those things? So I'm sorry if you felt judged, Nicole. My intention was to never judge you. It's always to understand you.
Nicole, you mentioned your rich life. You said, "I'm living my rich life." What is your rich life day-to-day?
I read the book I Will Teach You to Be Rich three years ago, I want to say, and implemented it for myself as a single person. So I've put five different savings accounts together for the things that I've sort of prioritized, being travel, expenses of extravagance, meaning the $500 dress has sort of become a joke between me and I. But if I want to buy that, there's an account for that, so I don't really think about it.
I don't typically cook too much. That's kind of changing too. So I had a pretty large budget for dining out. And I guess the fourth one is I paid for my sister's children to attend school.
What do you feel when you just explain those buckets to me?
I feel great about them.
I love it. I love when people feel great about spending money intentionally that they can afford. That's awesome.
No, it feels really good. I have been on really amazing trips. I've been to Switzerland and Germany and Austria, and I had a bucket for that.
I love that. Well done. Shane, do you have an equivalent setup in your finances for what Nicole just described?
I do not.
Okay. Does what she is saying, does it make sense to you, having separate savings accounts?
Yes, it does. I think the intentionality of doing things in the way that she has set them up allows her to feel so great about her spending and know that she's going to be okay and that there's no guilt in what she's doing. And that's great. I envy that.
You envy it, but you have not set the same thing up in your own finances. Without judgment, I'm curious why not.
Why I haven't done that is because I haven't really needed to do that because I don't have many fixed costs for what I do for a living, and I never had to worry about money. Whatever I wanted to do, within reason. If I want to go out and buy a very nice sweater, jacket, fishing gear, go skiing, I can do that. And I don't even have to look at my savings account because I know the money's in there.
Let me understand what you both do for a living. Nicole, can you start?
I started a babysitting, nannying service. So I place nannies and babysitters with families. I have an app that families can go on and book through, and then I have a list of sitters that are distributed accordingly. And then I work for three or four of those families, specifically mostly traveling with them.
What a cool job. All right, I love that. And Shane, what about you?
I work for a nonprofit that's a long-term residential recovery program for college-aged young men, and I've recently been promoted to the acting chief operational officer and the vice president of operations.
Cool. And just so I understand correctly, you mentioned you don't have, I think it's rent or other fixed costs like food. Is that because you are housed at the facility?
Yes.
Okay. So what other benefits do you get? Just so I know. Housing, food, anything else?
Sometimes transportation, cable, basically all costs. Yeah, except for cell phone.
Wow. That's quite amazing.
Yeah. Right. So all that money I get to save. It just goes into the bank.
Cool. How do you feel about that? It's quite an interesting job and an interesting career position to have all fixed costs covered. How do you feel about that?
It feels great.
What happens when you get married? Will your housing situation change?
Yes. So I'm going to move in with Nicole. She's renting.
All right. Gotcha. Now, Nicole, you said in your application you are, quote, unsure how to incorporate marriage and a child into your rich life. What do you mean? What part feels hard to incorporate?
Hopefully, we'll be having a baby soon, and I will not be able to sustain the life that I'm currently living in terms of work because I won't be able to travel and be away for months and weeks on end. So essentially my income and my part of the agency will kind of go away. I'll still have sitters working for me, but that pretty much cuts my salary in half.
So obviously the $500 dress either needs to be reallocated or not purchased in the same way that it has been up until now. And it is important to both of us that I stay home with the child and not traveling.
And the question is, how do we make it all work? Is that right?
Yeah. I'm not walking away from the agency entirely. So I'll still have the babysitters working for me, but it's about 50/50.
Okay. So your income will drop by, let's say, half.
By half. Yeah.
All right. So this is interesting. And just conceptually, what do you think is the answer here? If the high earner is going to take a 50% pay cut and add on a child, what's the solution here?
Well, then I won't need the travel savings account anymore because I'm probably not going to be going anywhere. My spending needs to go down.
Your spending, you're saying, conceptually should go down. Okay.
Right.
Anything else?
Yeah, Shane is planning on participating in my monthly expenses, but my fixed costs are fairly low where I'm renting.
Okay, Shane, you got anything to add here?
I think we're going to be able to do this successfully. I just think that there's some planning that needs to go into it. I obviously want Nicole to be happy and not feel like she's making a tremendous sacrifice in doing this because this has all been extremely joyful for me.
And I think this is one aspect that I don't necessarily think we've been avoiding, but we've been so busy that we really need to take some time to focus on this solely to kind of make some progress of planning on how we're going to continue to live in a situation where our money works for us, we're both happy, we're aligned, and our priorities are in sync.
Okay, I agree. Sounds good. I want to look at your numbers. What was it like to do the Conscious Spending Plan together?
It was fun.
Any surprises?
No, she already told me how much she spent a month, so that wasn't a surprise.
Good. And Nicole, were you surprised at all?
Yeah. No, I don't think there were any surprises. We had been having those conversations. We haven't had those sit-downs.
All right, let's take a look. Now, you have your money separate right now. You're not married, but as of 11 days from now, you're going to be married. So we have all of them, individual and combined, which is very helpful. Nicole, can you read off your numbers here and the word in bold next to it, please, for this entire column?
Assets: $20,000. Investments: $96,400. Savings: $100,000. Debt: $4,300. Total net worth: $220,700.
Okay. And Shane, can you do the same thing for your numbers, please?
Sure. Assets, I have $225,000. Investments, I have $143,500. Savings: $165,000. And debt: $167,364. Total net worth: $366,136.
This is quite interesting. What do you make of these numbers?
They're awesome.
Wow. Okay, cool. Nicole?
They're great. Yeah, I think they're great.
So I want to point out that Nicole makes more than Shane, but Shane has a higher net worth by approximately $140,000. Nicole has $20,000 in assets. Nicole, what are those assets?
My car and some jewelry.
Okay. And then Shane has $225,000 in assets. What's that? What are those assets, Shane?
I bought a townhouse. I have a car and a boat.
Investments are, they're kind of comparable. Not really. Shane has 143K. Nicole has 96K. So about 40, 50% more. Okay, let's move on. Savings. It's kind of similar cadence. We have 100K for Nicole, 165K for Shane.
That is striking to me because the way that you described your finances was Nicole spends a lot, right? And then Shane has no fixed costs whatsoever, so he puts it all into savings, but actually the numbers are not too far off from each other. That's kind of interesting to me. And then finally, debt. Nicole has $4,300. Nicole, what kind of debt is that?
I just had LASIK eye surgery, so that'll be paid off. I have an account for it.
Oh, okay. You have the money. You just finance it because it's like 0% for six months or something.
Yeah.
All right. And then what's your debt, Shane?
Student loans and mortgage.
All right. Overall, solid. Just kind of interesting to see the difference in the way you describe how much you make and your expenses and then where we end up with the net worth. The way you described it here and in your
Application was, I, Nicole, run this quite glamorous business and I make a lot of money and I love nice dresses and traveling, and that's cool. I save for it and it's great. Shane, you called yourself a saver. You were kind of shocked that you might spend 10K a month, and you have no fixed costs, so you save all of it. That's kind of interesting. I would expect maybe some different numbers here. They're kind of similar even though your financial situations are quite different.
Yes. And seeing the numbers out there and my shock of how much money Nicole spends, why should I be shocked? She looks like she's in a similar financial situation than I am, and she's doing everything that she wants to do, and that's great.
That's interesting. Maybe your feelings are not correlated with how much money is in the bank.
Yes.
That's quite interesting. All right, let's go down to the income. Nicole, what's your gross monthly income?
$10,192.
All right, cool. And Shane?
$9,949.
Is that the new salary after your promotion?
Yes.
What was it before?
Probably around 6K.
Whoa. So you just got a 50% increase.
Yes.
Damn. All right. Round of applause on that. That's great work. How's that feel?
It feels amazing. And it feels really great to be recognized and entrusted with all of the operations of this organization. It's wonderful.
That's amazing. I love it. Both of you, well done. And Shane, especially, that 50% salary increase is awesome. So combined, the two of you make $241,000 per year. By a show of hands, who knew that number?
What? Both of you? Really?
Yeah.
Yeah. We've been talking about it so much.
All right, another round of applause. This is fantastic. And what do you think of that number? 241K household income.
That's amazing. My only thought is the hovering over that's going to drop on my end.
Yeah. All right. But we'll get to that.
Today is great.
Okay. Shane?
I think it's unbelievable, all things considered.
Are y'all doing a prenup?
No.
No.
No.
We talked about it. I think it was brought up by Nicole. She said, "Oh, we need to have a prenuptial agreement." And I gave her a side eye. I was like, "What are you talking about? Isn't this conversation supposed to go the other way around?"
Implying that men are supposed to bring it up for women?
Yeah. It's just kind of like the old adage of, oh, you better get a prenup.
Yeah. But we're living in 2025. Your female partner makes more money than you.
Yeah.
So what's the problem?
I think it potentially invalidates our love and commitment to each other in marriage.
Okay. One thing that I have often seen is that what we often think of as gender issues are often power issues. And when gender is disentangled from the situation, what you discover is that whoever is in power will act like the person who used to be in power. Case in point, what you just said, Shane, is extremely interesting and extremely typical of when a man brings up a prenup and his fiancée or girlfriend goes, "I don't want that. It feels unromantic, etc." And then everyone goes, "Oh my God, this is this guy and this ignorant woman." And it's a gender thing.
But actually, when we disentangle gender, because now we have a lot of women earning more than men as we see here, and a high-earning woman goes, "Hey, I think we should get a prenup," then you'll see the guy saying exactly the same thing as she used to say, exactly word for word. So it's not necessarily gender-related. Of course, there's gender issues related to prenups and all kinds of money, but it's also power. Does everybody see that here?
Yes.
Whoa. Nicole, when he said, "Hey, I'm not really into it. It kind of invalidates our love for each other," what was your response?
I think I remember in multiple podcasts you mentioning it wasn't a great experience for you and your partner at the time either. And I thought, okay, I could really push this, but I'm going to support Shane in this, in that we're going to be married in the Catholic Church. You get married for a very specific reason to someone, and it is forever. As even the business owner who, let's say this doesn't work out and I own a company that is successful, I know in my heart of hearts he's not coming for it. And I didn't feel the need to push back further. I had the conversation. I felt really great about his response and I felt fine. I feel great about moving on from it.
Nicole mentioned that she asked about a prenup and then Shane wasn't interested, and she let it go. Okay, first of all, that's a huge mistake. There are certain questions where once you ask it, you can't just let it go. When I brought up a prenup with my now wife, Cassandra, I knew that by bringing it up, it was going to happen. It had to. I was not bringing it up casually: "Hey, what do you think about this?" No, it was, "Hey, this is really important to me. Let me tell you why I'm nervous. Let me tell you why I'm bringing this up. Let me tell you what this means." And to Cassandra's credit, her response was, "I wasn't expecting this, but I'm willing to learn." She was open about it, and that changed everything for us.
In our case, it did not stay easy. At first, it was fine. Then we got lawyers involved. All these numbers were going back and forth. Neither of us really felt understood. And after months of going back and forth, Cassandra said, "This is not going well. We need to go see somebody." Went to see a therapist. That therapist really opened up our eyes to realize we saw money completely differently. There was trust. There was fear. There was pride. There was so much of what this prenup represented.
Surprisingly, having these conversations, even when it got tough, brought us way closer together. We talked about money in a way we never would have had we not signed a prenup. That's one of the reasons that I love talking about it and destigmatizing this idea. I also want to recognize that it is unusual historically for a woman to bring up the idea of a prenup, but it's happening more and more. Of course it is. Many women are now earning more than men, particularly in urban areas. So I want you to start thinking about rethinking these gender norms. If one of you has a complex financial portfolio or you have rental properties or a business or whatever, it makes a lot of sense to explore the idea of a prenup before you get married.
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All right. Your gross income, $241,000 a year combined. Wow, that's a lot. What the hell? Your fixed costs are 36% combined. Okay, just look at these numbers. $1,400 for your rent. Nicole, where do you live?
We live on the East Coast, coastal Connecticut. But I moved here during COVID and got a really great deal on an amazing apartment that we will be staying in for that, because it's at least 3,000 for my place now. Just happened to move here at a really great time.
Okay, well done. This actually explains a lot when you talk about buying a beautiful coat and things like that. Well, guess what? You can probably afford to do that when your individual fixed costs are 49%, and that primarily traces back to having extremely cheap housing. Beautifully done. Let's keep going. Combined, you've got all the basic stuff. Nicole has $750 that runs through the business. Is that right, Nicole?
So website, marketing, text messaging, things that I need for the company. I put all my business expenses in that.
You put your business income in here as well.
Yes.
This is kind of confusing. Okay, listen. As an entrepreneur, you have a business credit card, right?
Oh God.
This actually explains everything. That 1.2-second pause actually explains everything. Did everybody catch that? I go, "Hey, you have a business credit card, right?" She goes... I go, "Oh, now I see why this is all messed up." Okay, Nicole, explain it.
It's very organized. Can you put it back on the screen?
Yeah, happily.
Okay. Do you see how also I put dining out? These are fixed costs because these are things that I have allotted for in my expenses, in my savings accounts.
That's what—
I don't have debt and I don't have a car payment. But these are things that I spend money on every month. So I think that the business expenses should be in there as fixed costs. I have to keep the website up. I have to run the text messaging. I have to pay for the marketing. Why are you looking at me like that?
This is fine because it doesn't materially change anything. Whether the $750 for your business expenses is here or where it properly should be, which is on your business account, like your QuickBooks or whatever you use, that's really where it should be. It's not really material. If that number were $7,500 a month, then we would have to rip this thing up and redo it. But truthfully, it doesn't really change the numbers.
Your business should have its own set of accounts. It should have its own business savings, checking, credit card, and expense line. So all of those are counted somewhere else. You could have a business CSP if you want. This isn't really set up for the business. This is a consumer version, but you could do a QuickBooks or you can use my friend Mike Michalowicz's book. There's a lot of ways you can track your business finances. But when it comes to the CSP, this is your income and your personal money. We want to keep the business stuff out of it because that is truly separate. Okay, that's just conceptually how to think about it.
Can I perspect a little bit? Because even if my income personally of me traveling goes away, that expense still stays there. So that's why I would identify it as a fixed cost, because my company is still going to be running.
Yeah. But if your income goes away or gets cut in half, you can deal with the expense separately on your business line. Whether you keep it or not, it needs to be separate. And this is another reason you have an accountant. You're the accountant.
I'm everything.
Uh-huh. And okay, hold on. Why don't you have an accountant?
My grandfather does my taxes. He's 91.
It's great. Your accountant would tell you everything I'm telling you right now. They'd be like, "Get a business credit card. Don't commingle your funds." And on and on and on. So just get an accountant, okay? They'll sort this all out. It's not that big of a deal anyway. It's fine.
Okay.
All right. Moving along. Groceries at $500. That's pretty low. That's because you eat out a lot. All right. Fine. Clothes at $300 each. Each of you is buying $300 a month of clothing. Is that right?
Easily.
Yeah. Recently, yes.
Phone. All right, subscriptions. One of you is 50. That's Shane. Nicole's $4.97. What is that? Fitness?
Multiple fitness, Peloton, Apple, Netflix, Hulu.
Yeah. What's the most expensive one? Is it a gym?
Yep. Gym. 150.
150. All right, fine. Look, truthfully, if you all have a combined fixed cost of 36%, I really have nothing to say. Do it. It's working. Do whatever you want. Great. Shane has a fixed cost of 18%, and Nicole has 49%, which is great. Investments, 14%. So we have Nicole doing 9%, $883 a month. What is that $883 going towards, Nicole?
That is a 401(k) now.
All right. And then Shane is contributing $512 a month and $1,000 a month. Shane, where's that investment money going towards?
401(k) and my brokerage account. Picking stocks a couple times a year.
Like what stocks?
Researched blue chips, ETFs. I try to time the market, I guess. It's like when there's a dip, I'll just take a bunch of money that I have in savings and strategize a bunch of stocks to purchase once a year, a couple times a year, and then I forget about it. Just see what happens.
Can you forget about that strategy and use a better strategy that will make you hundreds of thousands of dollars more?
That's why I'm here, Ramit.
You shouldn't be doing what you're doing, but at least it's better than doing nothing. So in that way, you've got a handle on how you're investing. At least you have this time every six months, every 12 months, you log in. I appreciate all that. The mechanics are really good. Timing the market is extremely detrimental to returns. It's one of the worst possible things you could do. But you could fix it, so I'm not going to beat you up too much. Look, you're investing 1,500 bucks a month. A couple minor tweaks, and you seem quite open to it, you could actually turn that into a lot of money.
That'd be great.
Cool. All right. I respect it. So between the two of you, 14% invested each month of net. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. How do you all feel about that?
Yeah, I feel good about that number. I don't do any of those projections. I have no idea what happens there, what that looks like in 10 years or 15 or whatever. I haven't done any of that.
Yeah. Who would want to know how much money we're going to end up with later in life? Who would care about that?
I think we both got to 100,000 and we just don't know how to get from there to the next level.
It's actually quite insightful what you're saying, Shane, because getting to 100K is very impressive in and of itself, and it requires to have good underlying mechanics. What I mean by that is, you can kind of brute force your way to saving 10K. You might even be able to brute force your way to 25K, in some cases 100K if you have a high income. But if you don't actually know how it works,
It's kind of like getting lucky in Vegas, but if you don't understand how the game is played, you're always going to lose, but you're going to lose big and you're going to lose fast. With investing, you're like, "Well, what do we do now?" And as an example, it's kind of a flag to me when you go, "Oh, we don't project. We don't project." But actually, if you don't project, if you don't have a sense of how much are we going to have, is that enough? What kind of lifestyle are we working towards? Then all of this is just playing in the weeds. So I'm going to help you do that. I'm going to help you project so that we have a sense of where you're going. Okay.
Yes. Your savings numbers are shocking. They're quite shocking. I'm going to put them up on screen. 42% saved. And if we break it down, it's 47% for Shane and 38% for Nicole. Let's go through it.
On the vacations, Shane saves $150 a month. Nicole saves $450 a month. That actually tracks really well. Nicole likes to travel. Seems like perhaps a little bit more extravagantly, she's saving more. Makes perfect sense. Gifts. Shane is saving $1,000 a month for gifts. Nicole is saving $100 a month. Emergency fund, $250 and $150 for a total of $400. Just scrolling up to your savings, you have $265,000 in cash savings. You have pretty much way too much in savings. Do you all realize that?
Yeah, that's the scariest part about looking at all of this, is we have a bunch of money sitting in—mine's in a credit union, hers is in an account—and it's not even earning high interest.
Nicole, you have $100K sitting in savings but only $96K invested. Why?
Probably also because I don't have the business separated. So I do need to have a lot of money cash so that I can send the money out to pay people before I get—
You need this separate. You see why you need it separated? Because that revolving amount that you need for cash flow, that's fair. Your business might be heavy on capital demands, but that's got to be over here in a business account, and it cannot be here because you're just letting all this cash just sit here. Now, maybe you take $80K and send it to your business account. Fine. But that $20K needs to be put to work. It needs to not just be sitting there. And that's what's happening because it's all commingled and sloppy. It's like a sloppy junk drawer.
All right, moving along. Wedding, honeymoon, children's tuition, baby, and a house, speaking of junk drawers, is all one savings category, and you all are saving almost $5,000 a month for it. Minor stylistic thing: I don't like that it's all combined, but the fact that you're saving $5,000 a month is really impressive. Do you know how much you are saving for a house?
Not right now. We were about $2,000 a month.
Each.
Yeah. Each.
So $50,000 a year. And how much do you need for a down payment?
I don't think we're going to be purchasing a home for at least five years. So I don't know.
Okay.
A house, $450,000, $500,000.
Yeah. So you need like $100K.
100. Yeah. Which we have, but then, yeah.
You know what I hear when the two of you describe your money? It's like some of the tactics are implemented well. You have very low fixed costs. You have money going to very specific dedicated named accounts. All that stuff is great. Your mechanics are pretty good, but there's no vision. There's no why. You actually have a vision between the two of you. We're not going to buy a house for the next five years. We want to have kids. You have this stuff talked about, but it's not showing up properly in the way that you work with numbers.
You have the ground-level mechanics, which is also powerful, but you don't have that thing in the middle, which is how much do we need? How much are we saving for? How much are we going to have when we retire? There's just this entire chasm of missing information. And so what I suspect happens is it allows you to just save, save, or have these random disagreements, but you don't actually have something specific that you're working towards. As an example, it's like we need to save for the next 17 months and then we're done. That would actually feel so good. But right now it's just like, ah, we got to save more. Yeah. How's that strike you?
I think you're spot on. I think for myself, I've always checked my account balances, which was very infrequent, probably like six times a year, because I always knew it was increasing.
I want to encourage you to think about it a little differently. What you just said is the equivalent of a baker saying, "I think this pie is going to be good because it's rising."
Yes.
I don't think that's how bakers actually operate. A good baker is going to understand quantity and sugar and whatever bakers do. What you're saying is, as long as the number's going up, I'm good. But you all are operating at a different level now. You have hundreds of thousands of dollars, about to get married. You're talking about a house and kids and all. You've got to actually understand more about how money works.
Yes.
Right.
Absolutely.
All right. And then the final thing I'm noticing here—oh God, I'm going to get roasted from all these freaking bakers online. All these bakers coming to me saying pies don't rise. I'm telling everybody preemptively, don't comment to me about my lack of baking ability. I already know. Trust me. Every day I come on this podcast and I expose myself to a new corner of the internet who I don't want to hear from. And I allow them to make fun of me, which is actually the worst. Why do I do this?
All right. Your guilt-free spending is 8%. Is that true? Nicole indicates that her guilt-free spending is $348 per month. Nicole?
It is only because I've already baked everything into my fixed expenses. My fixed costs, dining out is in my fixed costs. It was one of the line items.
Yeah. Yeah, I remember that.
And my dresses are in there, too, because it's part of my savings. So it's not accurate, but it is accurate.
Shane, what was my number?
$1,13 per month.
Yeah, that sounds about right.
What do you spend that on?
Fishing gear, skiing gear, coffee, eating out, buying gifts.
All right.
Yeah, that's about it.
Out of curiosity, I'm going to try to do something. Let me show you, Nicole. I'm going to do this with you right here. Okay. So, check this out. I'm taking your fixed costs, which are your discretionary thing. We're talking about your dining out for $500. Okay, I'm going to zero that out up here. And then clothes for $300. I'm going to zero that out as well. That's $800. So now you're spending $1,148, which is 12%. That sounds more realistic.
What that does is it actually provides us a slightly more accurate view. Your fixed costs are now 41%. Still super low. Actually lower than they used to be. Your savings is at 38. That's high. That's really good. Investments at 9%. No, we're going to fix that. That's too low. Because why would you be saving 38% but only investing 9%? Doesn't make sense, right? For young, relatively young. You're 40. Is that right?
Yeah. You got to be investing. You got to put that money to work. And then finally, you got a thousand bucks. I don't know. You talk about living a cool life. Looks like you have a very nice shirt on, yet you're only spending $1,100 a month on discretionary. I'm not sure I believe it.
I don't believe it either.
Something's not adding up here. What do you think it is, Nicole?
No, I think that's accurate. There is another tab on your CSP that has all my detailed expenses.
Oh, let's look.
And they're all categorized.
All right, let's take a look here. This is from this month. We have Pottery Barn gift of $42, hotel $381, health membership for $65, a gift for $140, some health vitamins for $32.60, 21 bucks food at a movie, clothing for $475, dinner for $118. Doesn't it seem like more than a thousand bucks already?
Yes. The most important part is this. So, I have total expenses of the entire month. I'm over what I've made this month by $2,498.
Meaning you're in the red by $2,500.
Right.
There's several problems on this sheet. Can you spot them?
That it's over the $1,200 that I'm allotted.
That too. So, we know that your CSP number is not accurate. What else?
I don't—my business is in here.
Yes. That's a huge problem because we can't fix this because we can't even get accurate numbers because it's all jumbled together. This is why you've got to use a separate credit card. This is just one of many reasons. You don't want somebody suing you and then they come after your personal money either. And Shane, you're about to be on the hook for that as well. If you all combine your money, you need to have protection, separate accounts, liability, all that stuff. But you also just need to be able to look at your numbers and be like, "Oh my God, am I up or down on my personal and my business?" And right now, you can't tell any of it. How is it that your CSP says $1,148 when it's obvious you're spending a lot more?
I think it is still quite accurate because some months are so different, but I think it is really because my business is in there.
It's possible, but I would say from looking at a lot of people's finances, I doubt it. I'm going to encourage you to go back, clean it up, strip out the business stuff, and do a more detailed analysis of your personal expenses for the last three to six months, and you'll be able to find some trends. I suspect it's probably double or triple. That's my guess because nobody who shops and travels like you spends only $1,148 a month. No way. How much did your haircut cost? It looks like a very nice haircut.
I can do this myself.
You did it yourself?
Yeah.
No.
Yeah.
Wow, that was actually a very good response. That was a very good response. Hey, it's possible I'm wrong. Just find out the numbers and follow.
I'll, yeah, rather than defend myself, I'll find out the actual number. I think I don't have a set income every month. I can kind of play with it, and it is a bit of a game to play.
I've always said that just because you write it all down in these spreadsheets doesn't mean that it's accurate or it's actually working.
I think that's right. Let me explain why. So, I have a lot of people who come on this show, and in your case, Nicole, you have an abundance of money. So, an abundance of money, you got $100K over here and $20K over there, and you got all this stuff jumbled together. But if something goes wrong, you can just float it, which I suspect is happening quite a bit. You may just not know it.
I have couples that are in the opposite situation. Everything's jumbled together, but they don't realize they're two months away from running out of money. I remember a couple on this podcast. They were two months away from running out of money. It was a very difficult thing to realize, but how do you get to that point? You have some bills due now, you have property tax due quarterly. It's just not all clear, and suddenly you can float it for six months, sometimes five years, and then you hit a wall and it all collapses. I don't think you're at risk of that right now. But what you are at risk for is not having enough money as you get older.
I see this pattern all the time when I talk to couples. One partner tracks every single dollar. They have custom categories in some color-coded spreadsheet. They log in to their money app every single day. And in heterosexual relationships, this person is almost always the woman. When I ask them, "What do these numbers mean?" The ones that you spend hours every week tracking, they have no idea. They track it all the time. But all of that work is aimed at exactly the wrong target.
Take a look. Nicole is meticulous. She has savings accounts for specific goals. She knows exactly what she spent on her last vacation. She could tell me what she ate out, how much it cost last Tuesday. But what's the point? Do you know when you can retire? Do you know how much you can afford on a car or a house or a vacation? Please listen carefully. Your job with your money is not to jot numbers down. You are not a stenographer. Your job is to know your key numbers cold.
Specifically, what do these numbers mean? Not what did I spend on takeout last month, but am I saving enough? Are my investments on track? Have we jointly defined what our Rich Life is? And then, are we using our money to live it? Those are the meaningful questions you should be asking. Nicole has built something really impressive. But for all that careful tracking that she is doing, there's something crucial that she's been missing entirely. And right after this, we're going to find out what it is.
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Shane, your debt is listed at $167,000, but $0 is going to debt every month. Is that because you're paying your mortgage?
Yeah. So, I purchased a condo that my mother lives in. So, I'm covering the HOA fees, and my student loans are in deferment right now while they figure out the whole income-driven repayment plan.
How much is your student loans?
Between 55 and 60. I qualify for the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program. So, if I make 120 months of qualifying payments, the rest of it is removed or forgiven. So, I'm planning on doing that.
Great. All right. That's a good answer. You know your numbers. You know what's going on, and you're waiting. Fantastic. You all have answered my questions about that. Now, I want to ask you a question. As it currently stands, if we project out until, Shane, you are 65 years old—
I would say not enough, but around $600K.
What's the number, Nicole, that you suggest you're going to have by 65?
Let's go with a million.
Million bucks. Actually, the answer is $1.7 million as we project. How's that sound to both of you?
Great.
It's not enough to live where we live.
Really? That's interesting because one says great, the other says not enough.
With a child and the schooling that we'd like to have them go to and me not work, you're projecting at the amount that I'm making. Yes?
Yes, I am. Can I give you a little bit more context on that number?
Sure.
Most people, when they hear a number that's 600K, 800K, 2 million, they don't really know what it means. What does that mean? This sounds like a lot of money sitting around in my junk drawer. But actually, if we use something called a 4% rule, it's a very simple back-of-the-napkin math. It allows us to withdraw 4% from the time we retire until we die and safely know that we're not going to run out of money. You would be able to safely withdraw $68,88 per year in what's called safe withdrawal income.
For both of us?
Yes.
It's not enough.
It's not enough. Let's add in Social Security. Let's be conservative. I don't know, 50, 60K. 130K in safe withdrawal income. Again, I'm ballparking loosely. What do you all think?
Not enough.
What does it make you think when you hear this?
That we need to plan to invest or learn about investing now so that that number increases. So the next time we do this, we know these numbers and we don't have to worry about it because we know that at retirement age we're going to have X number and we're going to both say that's great.
Okay. So you want to invest more. I agree conceptually. Nicole, what does it make you think?
That I need to decrease my spending significantly so I can invest more. I guess it makes me want to change what I'm currently doing because it's not enough. It was enough for me as a single person, but it's not enough for us as a couple and a family.
It's not enough. And actually, it's interesting to me that you jump right into, I need to cut my expenses. Can I just show you the numbers? Look at this. How much are you spending on your discretionary expenses per month according to this?
$1,148.
All right. So you cut it by half and you now have $500 extra a month to invest. I think that would be a good idea. Fine.
Right.
Is that a lot?
No.
Where's a lot of money sitting around in your finances?
In my savings account doing nothing.
You have $100,000 sitting in your savings account doing nothing. That's one thing right there. You could invest a lump sum of $50,000.
So you want that to be in more investment instead of savings.
I don't want anything. I want you to think about what is your rich life, what is important to you, and then potentially to reallocate money accordingly.
Right. I'd like to reallocate it.
Yes. All right. My point is you don't have to jump to immediately, I got to spend less on dresses. Maybe, maybe not. And actually, that's not really going to move the needle very much at all, right?
But more importantly, we can't decide what you need to change without actually having an honest accounting of what you're spending. That's a real problem. If we want to put 50K right now into investments, could we? I don't know. Do you need that money for business or is it purely for savings? And on and on. So that's why I want you to really know your business versus personal. Okay?
I don't think that $1.7 million is enough by the time you retire. I think it's possible you have less because your income might go down, Nicole. And do you plan to return to the workforce after you have a baby?
Yes, but it'd probably be at least a year, if not longer.
Right. Okay. All right. So we got to leave some room for that.
Mhm.
Nicole, you mentioned that your business income varies from month to month. How much does it vary?
So the business income is pretty consistent. That is usually around 5,000 to 6,000 a month. I just hired a marketing team to do some more marketing and hopefully to bring in more business so that it can backend me moving out of the business.
Nice.
I also started doula training, which will be something that I can do with the baby and closer to home. So I have been preparing for this. What varies is really me. For example, October I didn't work a single day. By work I mean I wasn't physically anywhere.
How much you charge as a nanny?
$500 a day.
What about when you travel?
Still 500 a day.
Let me ask a question just because I'm curious. So you're working with wealthy families. If they travel, they'll hire you as a travel nanny. You go with them. What are some places that you've gone?
Spain, Scotland, Ireland, London.
Cool.
Hawaii.
What's the travel arrangements? Do you sit in economy with the kids or what?
It depends on the family. Usually, wherever they're sitting is where I'm sitting. If they're in first class, I'm in first class.
Got it. So for a full-time one-week trip, you'd be paid like 30. What did we say? 500 bucks times seven days.
Right.
All right. That's cool.
Plus, I'd have all expenses paid for, right? All housing and food, anything I do, anything I do with the kids is all taken care of.
How did you get into this?
I got into it actually to pay my student loan.
Mhm.
So I worked full-time and I babysat on the side, and then it got to the point where I could only be in one place at one time. People were giving my name to a lot of different people, and I started hiring my friends to babysit and kind of brokering it. So I would have the babysitter go to their house. The family would pay me. I would pay the babysitter.
I saved up enough money to build a platform so that the families could just log into my website and make the bookings themselves. And then it streamlined everything so that it sends out a message to the sitters, which emails the client, and all that stuff is done after the fact.
And this is in the Northeast?
Yes.
And this is for a babysitter?
Yeah, this is nights, weekends, fill-in nanny type of job.
Pretty interesting. All right, cool. Thanks for walking us through that. I think a lot of people are curious about how does it work at the wealthy or ultra-wealthy level for nannies, night nurses, babysitters, etc.
It's a whole industry, very helpful to the families. And wealthy families, particularly those who talk to each other and who live in certain geographical areas, they know this stuff. They talk about it. It's a very common thing. So I like to shine a light on this just as an example of what's possible.
All right. So you make 5,000 from the agency that you run, and if you're working, ballpark, you're making about 5,000 a month from that direct work. Is that right?
Correct.
Okay. So the 5,000 is going to go away at some point. All right. Have you all calculated what happens when that money goes away? How does it affect your numbers?
We know that it's going away, but we haven't really discussed what that looks like.
Why don't we just do it right now? Nicole makes 10,000, let's just say $10,000 gross and 9,500 net. What the—I also don't believe that. What about taxes?
Right. So I kind of did that for taxes. That's another savings account.
Do you know what you're netting every month? I'm going to guess it's like 6,000, 6,500, something like that. Actually, how does this math work at all?
6,500 is definitely more than that.
It's more than that. All right, let's go to 7,000. If this is true, this is how much you're netting. Then your fixed costs are actually 55%, which is not nearly as low as we thought. Your investments are at 13, your savings are at 51, and you're actually spending more than you make every single month.
Right.
Is that possible?
Yes.
Oh, Shane comes out of left field.
Yeah, come in over there.
Care to comment?
Yeah. I'm with Nicole and I see the amount of money that she spends, and I think that's where some of my apprehension comes in, when she's sending me pictures of houses on Zillow and schools for our kids who have yet to be born. How is this going to work with the amount of money that seems to be spent each month? And I think we joke with each other, after the wedding we got to reel it in, reel it in. But I hate putting guardrails on her spending.
Let's not do that.
Okay.
Okay. Yes, have the wedding. But there is an entire worldview that I am starting to uncover regarding your money that is concerning. It works because you have a big buffer of cash. That's pretty much the only reason this thing works. If you didn't have that big buffer of cash, Nicole, I suspect you would be in financial trouble. According to this, and I think this is understating it, I think that you might be spending more than you make every single month. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I think I'm pretty much spending exactly as much as I'm making. Some months it's under, some months it's over.
And what do you think about that?
I think it works because I can always take another job.
You have the mentality of a gig worker.
Right.
A gig worker, a shift worker. They say things like, "I can always just pick up another shift." You're paid very well, but the problem is at a certain point you can't do that. And you're actually starting to think about that with the potential entry of a baby.
Mhm.
So if you're spending what you make right now, what do you do when your income drops by half?
Then everything needs to drop by half. That's what I was having the conversation with Shane, like, I don't know if I can contribute $2,900 into our savings account for a house and all that when I'm not making as much as I'm making now.
But also, why is it even 2,900?
I can answer that question. When I first met Nicole, she was house shopping. She was looking at houses and she told me how much her rent was. So I anticipated that she could afford to have about a $4,000 mortgage per month because of how much the houses cost that she was looking at.
Mhm.
And I said it'd probably be beneficial, as things started to get serious for us, that you have some disposable income of at least $2,000 additional dollars, considering what your rent is. So why don't we put that into a high-interest savings account? I'll match it and we'll just keep doing that. So when we do want to buy a house, we have, like you said, $100,000 to put down and we're not even sweating that money. That's where that number came from.
That's a reasonable answer. It shows some foresight. I appreciate that. To me, it's a good start. It's missing a few things. You told me you don't plan to buy a house for five years.
Potentially longer. What do you think?
I guess it depends.
Yeah. It's not high priority for me.
Okay, so then let me entertain a guess here. I'm going to guess that neither of you said, "Hey, if we're not planning to buy a house in at least five years, maybe seven, maybe eight, should we consider just investing the money?" I'm willing to bet nobody said that.
Oh, I've said it.
You said it?
Yes.
Wait, you said it. And then what was the response? I'm very shocked. Pleasantly shocked. What was the response?
Let's wait till we do Ramit's show and see what he has to say about this.
Yeah.
Okay. No pressure. All right. Why are all your answers kind of good? Kind of good.
All right. I got a few more questions for you. Nicole, you track all of your spending. You manually put it in, manually categorize. What does it get you?
It helps me understand how much more I'm spending than I'm making or how much less, where I'm at.
And then what do you do with that information?
I adjust. I knew, for example, in October that I wasn't going to be working personally, so I don't spend as much. And I know that August I work every single day, so I can house that because I don't spend anything either because all my expenses are paid for. I work. November I didn't work that many days. So I can kind of see where I'm at at the end of each month. It doesn't feel like a burden to me. It doesn't stress me out. I just like it.
60 seconds of you explaining all this meticulous information that you—and then at the end you go, I don't know. I just like it.
Mhm.
I actually think it's the last thing you said. I think you like it. I think it feels comforting. I think it feels like control.
Mhm.
What if you didn't do it?
I don't know. Probably now at this point I know how much I spend every month. Either I spent $500 on a couple of skirts at Bloomingdale's or I spend $500 a per year. It all ends up, net-net, being about the same number every month.
Let's assume that's true. That's right now with you making $10,000 a month gross. What happens when you make $5,000 a month gross? Your margins become a lot tighter, right? This is why when people make $35,000 a year, they actually do need to track down to the line item because they don't have the margin that somebody making 100K, 150, 100, 200K has.
That's quite striking, I think. I'm not trying to pick on Nicole, but this is what happens when your Conscious Spending Plan is sloppy. We started this review thinking that their fixed costs were low. That wasn't true. And just entering net income in the wrong spot threw everything off. Once that happens on the CSP, all the downstream numbers are wrong.
Now, I want to point out that I see a lot of comments online from people getting frustrated when couples come on this show and they have an incorrect CSP. People want my team to screen them ahead of time and to work it over with them. We shouldn't get messy CSPs. No, I totally disagree. I want to show you reality, guys. This is how most people track their money. They don't even use a CSP. And when they do, it's wrong. That is not a weakness of the CSP. There is no magical solution that will make the first time you track your money perfectly accurate. This takes work. It's complex. And the point of this podcast is to show you the journey that people go through to live their rich lives.
If I want to show you how somebody lives, I want to go into their house with a camera and see all these shoes are all over the place. There's a freaking spoon in the bathroom sink. Why? I want to embrace the messiness because that's real. I don't want to tidy things up for you.
Nicole has been able to operate like this because she has cash sitting around that masks a lot of these weaknesses. But in fact, the way that she's set things up makes it almost impossible to see what's really going on. Many of you have the same problem because you have money flowing in all these weird different accounts. It's not clear what's going on. You're pulling from your savings randomly. And I see this especially happening with business owners. They move money around and mix accounts. And as long as they have enough in the checking account, they think it's fine. But that only works if you're tracking random numbers and ignoring these big real questions like, are we saving enough? Can we retire?
So next I want to understand where these habits are coming from because they did not magically appear. They were systematically built, I suspect, from a young age. So I want to find out where that started.
Can I understand a little bit more about how you both grew up with money? Shane, what do you remember your family saying about money when you were young?
My dad always carried a knot of money in his pocket. I remember specifically he took out a $100 bill and he said, "You see this, Shane? This is just paper. They'll make more and you can go get more. So don't worry about it." And my mother was the saver.
So when he said they make more of it, what did he mean by that?
Don't let it control you. Don't worry about it. If you get it, spend it. Enjoy life.
What did he do for a living?
He was a bookmaker before online gambling. On the East Coast, you needed a bookie to place bets. That was my dad. That was my dad.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
Okay. How dumb am I? I was like, "Oh, he was quite a literary figure. He was doing bookbinding." Yo, Indian people don't grow up knowing what a bookie is, especially not on the West Coast.
Wow. Okay, that explains it. Okay, so he said, "Don't let it control you. You can just make more." Which, in his industry, I can see why he said it.
Yeah.
What was his financial situation as he got older?
Not great. Because in that line of work, it's all cash-based. So there was no investing, I guess much to the tune of how Nicole is a high-end gig worker. My dad always knew that people were going to continue to bet and the house would always win, and as long as people continued to bet, he would always get his 10%.
So that's how it works. That's very interesting. Cash workers often not paying attention to tomorrow because today is quite lucrative and the structure of the business is just set up to focus on today. Okay. And your mom, you mentioned, was a saver.
Yeah, she was. My dad passed away dead even. He broke even in life financially, didn't leave me anything. And my mother was always anticipating a spot where the family would need money. And I think it was typical of, if we wanted something, my mother would go to her stash and pull out money so that we could do that. So that was the emergency fund. I know my dad would flip my mom a couple hundred every week and say, "Put this away." And then over the course of years, that's how it worked.
Did she work?
My mother always had a side hustle of a house cleaning business. She used to babysit kids at the house. She always worked, though. She would do that or she would have a part-time job.
What do you think you learned about money when you reflect back on your mom and dad?
My parents spent their money on me. They sent me to private Catholic school. So I was around individuals that had money, had nice things, and got to learn how that happened, right? What they lacked was investing for their future.
You have $143,500 invested. Where is that money invested?
It's invested in a 401(k), and I have a brokerage account.
Okay. And within those accounts, what investments have you chosen?
Basically stocks, because I have a couple Vanguard ETFs.
Would you say your dad was a gambler?
Yeah, absolutely.
Do you have any of that gambling instinct in you or gambling tendency in you?
No.
No. Wow.
Well, my father was the house, right? So he was able to teach me, if we went to a casino, he'd say, "Do you see this property? Do you think that they got all this money to make this place how it is by giving all their money away?" I know that my dad never lost when he was a bookmaker, right? He just went and picked up all the money, did the simple math, and then put the money in his jewelry box or whatever. So I was taught never to put a dollar into a slot machine or play a table game. There are no sure things.
I love the idea of parents teaching their kids the ins and outs of their wisdom and their profession. I used to have a personal trainer who had kids, and he would post videos of his little kids kicking a ball. And I thought to myself, he was an athlete and his kids are going to be athletes. And watching that transmission of tacit knowledge was just really special. It was really cool because my parents put us in sports and stuff, but they were not athletes. It wasn't something that they just did naturally, but they did it with academics. It's no surprise that my siblings and I turned out the way we did. In the same way that my trainer taught his kids day in and day out, same way your dad taught you about how bookies and gambling actually works in the house, is the same way that it worked for us.
Yeah, it was special.
Nicole, what do you remember about your family saying about money when you were growing up?
My mother controls most of the finances in the household. So my dad would have to give my mom the receipts if he took cash out of the ATM. And her saying was always, "We don't have money for that." And so I got a job when I was 14 because I got $100 a year to buy school supplies or clothes that I wanted, and I wanted something else beyond that. And she's like, "We don't have money for that." And I was like, "Oh yeah, I'm going to go get a job because I want that thing." Right? And then that's kind of how I've always worked.
My grandfather, I would say, is probably the most influential person in my life in terms of finances. So he worked a full-time job and then he ran a tax service. So he always kind of had a side hustle, and he retired. He's still alive.
Your grandfather ran a tax service and you don't have an accountant?
He's my accountant, but now he's 91. So I really need to—
Yo, this 91-year-old is watching this right now and he's like, "I told my granddaughter, separate accounts, no commingling." You're right, Grandpa. Okay, go on.
Yeah. So he worked a full-time job and did tax on the side, and he retired at 88. He was doing taxes until just a few years ago.
All right. That's pretty inspirational.
He really lived the luxurious life that I thought—my mom was very, "Everything is very tight." The thing I really took away from my parents would be, we saved to buy the thing. That was really important. And my grandfather, to me, was like, we just buy and spend. But he also had the money for it. But another awakening to me is now he's in his 90s. He wants to stay at home, and it's really expensive to stay at home with the care that he and my grandmother need. I'm looking at how much it's costing him, and I'm like, "Wow, I don't know if I'm going to have that much at 91."
Hey, Nicole, you're not going to have that much.
Right.
Unless you change.
And so I'm kind of in a panic mode of, oh my gosh, I'm watching this man who did everything right have enough, but it's getting harder for him.
What messages did you take away from the way your parents raised you with money and your experience with your grandpa?
I don't know.
Okay. Can I ask a couple of probing questions?
Sure.
Do you bring the desire to live a luxurious life like your grandpa?
Yes.
Okay. Do you bring the desire to want to be in control of money?
Yes, but I'd like to not.
Okay, fair enough. Do you bring the feeling of scarcity with money to this relationship?
I don't think so.
Okay.
I really disliked that comment that my mom would always say of, "We don't have money for that." I never wanted to feel that, which is why I brought that gig mentality. I had a full-time job and I started this babysitting agency because I was like, "I want to have enough to not have to say no to something that I want to do."
Okay. Quite interesting. What do you both make of your upbringings? And I'd like to ask you to assess the other's. Shane, what do you notice about Nicole's upbringing with money and her relationship with money today? And then Nicole, I'd like you to ask the same thing about Shane.
Yeah, I believe that what she's just described as her upbringing and what she's shared with me perfectly personifies her relationship to money and what she does bring into this relationship. I'm gaining a better understanding, or have gained a better understanding, of why she is the way she is. I really value and appreciate how she approaches money, and it really doesn't seem to affect her. And I'm understanding more of, it's like, "It doesn't matter now because I'll just make more."
Yes.
Okay. Thank you. Nicole?
I think more of his mother's side shows up in our relationship, of not wanting to spend money and wanting to save it and keep it, rather than his dad's side of spending it.
How would you describe, in a word or two, your identity as a couple as it relates to money?
I think it's very confused in the way that my business asset and personal are messy.
I agree. Beautiful description. That's really apt. Shane?
Yeah. Unsettling and unplanned.
Nice. All of these are great. I really appreciate them. As I always say, in order to live a rich life, you have to be honest with yourself and honest with the people around you. I think those were extremely descriptive, accurate words. The good news is we could fix all that, but I feel unsettled and confused when I look at the numbers. And if I feel that way, I know that you feel that way. And just getting through more things, like getting married, going through the new year, that's not going to solve any of this. Whether you have the wedding 11 days from now or five years from now, these underlying issues are things that need to be examined. They need to be interrogated. They need to be jointly improved.
Okay. So in order to do that, I want to shift a little bit to the future. So Nicole, we started this conversation about money talking about your future rich life with a new child not aligning with your current rich life. What do you say about creating a new rich life vision for the two of you?
That sounds great.
Shane, what do you say?
I love that.
Beautiful. So tell me, if we had a blank page, which we do, what travel, what experiences, what moments as newlyweds, as potential parents, are important to you in your rich life?
Say a private education for our children, boat, ocean, house on the coast, travel. That would sum it up.
Okay, Nicole.
Yes. Private education is very important to me as well. And travel. Travel is important.
Okay. What else?
I'd like to just adjust that dining out number to be at home, of eating at home.
You want to have dinners together more often?
Right. At home.
Great. Great. Can I make an observation? Private education, a boat, a house on the coast, travel. If you're all living on the East Coast, this is a very expensive lifestyle. Do you know how much it would cost to make this happen?
Millions a year.
Yeah, maybe a million. You could—
So I'm not here trying to squash any rich life dreams. I'm just trying to understand how much of this is a dream versus a vision. A rich life vision is something that we can reasonably achieve. What do you think?
My priority of a house on the coast is much lower.
Okay.
The other things are much more important.
Private education, $60,000 a year.
So it's not as bad here.
About half that.
About half that.
$30,000 a year. All right. And then you already have a boat.
You'd like a larger boat.
You want a bigger boat?
I do.
How much does a new bigger boat cost?
I could probably find one for about $50,000.
Okay, great. $50,000. And then the travel, how much per year?
So currently I spend about $7,500 a year.
Mhm.
I'd like to have that number cut in half.
Mhm.
For smaller experiences.
All right. Another thing that's really important to me is I don't want Nicole to have to go into these years of austerity. I want her to continue to live how she's lived and not worry about what we're worrying about or what she's worrying about, because I think making the adjustment backwards is a lot more difficult than making the adjustment forward. Right.
I agree. Adjusting downward is very difficult. How do you do it, though, if you have one partner who's the higher earner whose income is just cut in half and expenses have gone up, significantly up? How do you make that work?
I guess we have to do what we have to do through planning and going through this examination and being more organized to have a plan to return to this. But in the addition of a child, I don't think it's possible to get back to this. And I'm worried that, Nicole, are you going to be happy when you can't live this lifestyle two years from now? Is it going to affect you?
I am going to be quite happy to do that. Yes. Do I love having the $500 dress or the shirt? Yes. But the family and a husband was far more important to me. I'm happy to do those things. Really, I'm not going to feel resentment. I want to do it. That's more important to me.
Nicole, you mentioned that you're nervous about buying a house. Why is that?
I think I'd rather have the lifestyle of being flexible and travel and doing private school and staying home rather than feeling this burden of a house.
Shane, how do you feel about that?
I don't care where I live. I really don't.
That's cool that you both are on the same page, and I actually agree. Without knowing details of where you live, especially with the rent you have, it's like, oh my God, you're saving so much every single month. Incredible. But can I make a gentle suggestion? And that is to Nicole, you got to stop sending those Zillow links.
I've been telling her this.
Sometimes when we are trying to make a change with our money, we are doing things that are habitual. We're sending out Zillow links because you love looking at them, and it's just like, "Oh, look at this one. Look at that." But it's actually sending really mixed messages to your partner. So my gentle request would be, "Don't do it. Don't send it anymore." And more importantly, find something else to occupy your time because you cannot send mixed messages to your partner, but more importantly, you cannot send mixed messages to yourself. How do you feel about that?
That feels very fair.
Love it. Great. Okay. Can we take a look at the CSP then? Let's see what kind of changes we might be able to make. So looking here, we have some confusing things still on the CSP. I want to try to make them clearer right now so that we can actually make some decisions.
So Shane's income is going to stay roughly the same. He's just at about $10,000 a month. Great. Nicole's income, her gross income currently is about $10,000 with a net income of $7,000. I would like to change that to see what happens so we can simulate a 50% drop in income. Okay. So we're going to take that down to $5,000. Is that fair, Nicole?
Okay.
All right. And then what is our net going to be?
$3,500.
Yeah, 35. Maybe a little bit more. Let's say $3,800, ballpark. All right. Whoa. Watch what just happened. So right now, your fixed cost, if we're just doing Nicole, you're now spending more than you make every month. But you're moving in together, which is a financial benefit because it's combining two incomes without raising your rent. Your fixed costs are still at 47% joint. That's quite amazing.
Is it?
Yes. Let me tell you why. Typically, the fixed cost number, I encourage people to keep it between 50 and 60%. And that's hard to do, especially these days because housing is so expensive. So there's a lot of people I talk to who are at 62, 64, sometimes 73%, which is why they start to feel stressed out about money. But you all are not even close to 60%. And do you know why that is? It's because of this. It's your housing. I want to show you, just to simulate the difference. Let's say you all got a new place. Okay. How much would a new place cost you?
It would be like $4,000 a month.
$4,000. Shane, you agree with that?
I was going to say 36.
All right. $3,600. Right away, your fixed cost jumped to over 60%. Right away. So you can see that that is a key driver of affordability for you, the fact that you have this extremely inexpensive housing option. Groceries, it probably needs to go up a bit. Probably not a huge amount. What do you say?
I would say that needs to probably go to $1,000 with all of us eating at home.
I agree. It needs to go to $1,000. Should we make the change?
Sure.
We got $1,000 here now. It's 67% on your fixed costs. What else? Certain gadgets and whatever you're going to get for the baby, that needs to be included here. We certainly need to include diapers. We need to include
Whatever else. How much you want to put for that?
800.
800. Okay, cool. Yeah, fair. Let's put 800. Watch. What's this number up here? 74%. What do you notice so far?
If we were living like most other people live, we would be really stressing about money. But we have—
Yeah.
Yes. This is what money is for. This is what planning is for. Planning is not about how much did I spend last month on a dress. That's irrelevant. It's nice to know. Yeah, you should track it, I guess, to some extent. But we're talking about life changes. This affects everything. Should I leave my job and cut 50%? Should we wait three months to have a baby? Do we need to move and upgrade into a different apartment or a house or whatever? Do you see how big of an impact this makes?
Mhm.
It's like a crystal ball into your future. Okay, I agree with what you said. You would be stressed out. Let's not do that. Shall we reduce some stuff?
Okay. Yes, please. Yeah. Let's take your rent back down to $1,895.
Yeah.
Yeah. All right. And then your groceries, we're going to have to keep them at 1,000.
All right. What else did we change? Oh, the 800 bucks.
Let's zero that out. So, we're down to 51%. Not bad. Not bad. You have margin to play with because this is 51%, and I typically recommend people keep this number to 50 to 60%. You have 9% margin to play with. Conceptually, where would you put that 9%?
Investments.
Yes, I agree. Exactly. We're in our 40s. We realize that we don't want to retire with $1.7 million. We want more. So, yes, I would take that roughly 9% and I would invest it. Investments were at 22%, which is great. You could probably push it up a little bit, but we'll see.
Savings are at 64%. No way. That's way too high because money that is saved is not actually growing, right? We can't be saving $7,000 a month. That's insane. We need to be putting more of that money to work. So, what do you want to do?
I would like to invest at least $5,000 of that a month.
Do you want to invest 5,000 out of the 7,000? Okay.
Yeah, if we can afford it.
Well, we'll find out. And Nicole, what do you say?
I'd probably feel better about four.
Y'all are just picking random numbers out of the air.
Yeah.
I suspect this happens more than right now. Should it be four or 5,000? Nobody really knows. What matters is, number one, just general proportions. What should we be putting more money towards or less money towards? When I'm looking at savings, I'm thinking to myself, do we need $600 a month saved for vacations, which would be roughly 8,000 bucks a year?
We only need about—well, I said 3,500 because that is the few vacations that I wanted a year.
Yeah. So, let's round up because I don't want to have you feeling totally restricted, but let's put 400 bucks a month, which would be $5,000 a year. It's nice to have a little buffer. So, I just created some extra margin or extra cash flow for you. That money is flowing down here to your guilt-free spending, but we need to make some adjustments right now because it's in the negative. Do we need $1,100 a month for gifts?
No. Probably 200.
200. Great. Do we need 400 bucks a month for an emergency fund?
Yes.
We do? How much do we have in an emergency fund right now? Look up here.
All right. Okay. Only a small $265,000.
You need an emergency fund. You don't need to be saving $400 a month when you already have $265,000. It makes no sense. You have filled up your emergency fund and beyond. That $400 a month would be better allocated where?
Right.
Investing.
Investing.
Probably investing.
Mhm.
That's how we think about it. So, we eliminate the emergency fund because we already have that. Your savings is still at 50%. Why? Oh, because you're saving $4,900 a month for all of this other stuff. I like that you're saving for a baby, by the way. I wish more parents did this. There are going to be unexpected expenses that come up. It's great to get in a habit of saving, but I think you already nailed it up above. You're saving 800 bucks somewhere.
We didn't. It's not in there anymore.
Uh-oh. Out. Is 800 enough? We want to make sure. I want you to be comfortable.
I would be comfortable with 1,200 a month.
Let's just see how this affects everything. Okay, your fixed costs are now at 62%. So, it's not like y'all are just saving a bunch of money. We actually need to act like any other couple, meaning you need to be quite thoughtful about what you're doing with your money. You can be a little less thoughtful when your fixed costs are freaking 38% or 51%, but at 62%, that's it. You're actually over the recommendation. And that's okay. Don't stress out. Young parents, I always give them a little bit of extra grace. You might not be able to save as much as usual, invest as much as usual for a time period, but don't stress out. It's okay. That's what money is for, for these moments in time.
Your investments are at 22%. Your savings are still at 50%. That's insane.
Yeah, we can change mine to 1,000.
That's $1,000 a month or $12,000 a year. Okay. And Shane?
Yeah, you can dial mine down to 1,000 as well.
24%. What is this $2,000 a month going towards?
That's for my sister's children.
Ah. Okay. All right.
Yeah, it's a non-negotiable right now.
Non-negotiable. Okay. Gotcha. And Shane, what's your $1,000 going towards?
I don't know what it's going into.
Great answer.
Yeah.
I love the honesty. What do we need to be saving for?
Yeah, we still do need to save for the tuition.
Yeah, I guess I'd be saving for our child's tuition.
I think that's very legitimate.
What age do you start paying this tuition?
Eight.
Oh, okay. So, you don't need this money for eight years. I don't know what the rules are for saving or using a tax-advantaged account for a child for private school tuition. I'm not aware of that, but you should definitely look into that. Things like a 529, etc. But in addition, just conceptually, if I knew I wouldn't have to pay tuition for eight years, I would be investing that money because I don't want it sitting around for eight years earning minimal interest, perhaps losing to inflation. I want that money growing.
And eight years is a relatively long time horizon. So, something to think about. It's exactly the same decision my wife and I made about our money for a down payment for a house. We're like, do we want to buy a house anytime in the next decade? We're like, no. So, we just invested the money. Boom. Let it grow. And that allows us to buy a bigger house or a higher down payment or whatever. That's what I would suggest.
So, technically, I take that $1,000 and I put it towards investments. Watch. I'm going to call this tuition, and I save $1,000 here. Whoa. Now, I really, really like this because look at these numbers. They tell a story. The story is that you are investing 31%, which is extremely high, and you are saving 15%, which is pretty high. Do you all see that?
Mhm.
Yes.
Okay. Now there's only one problem. You don't have enough money to do all this stuff. And the reason I can tell that is if you look down here, guilt-free spending, you're at a negative $389. You actually need positive. It would make no sense for the two of you to be making $179,000 and not be able to go out to a coffee. So we're overspending somewhere. What do you think?
Investing.
Yeah, I think you probably are investing too much. As it stands, you are investing $35,000 a year.
So I guess we need to pick the number that we're comfortable with retiring at and our annual income and then dial and work backwards.
Yes, working backwards is great, and we should do that. Actually, should we just do that right now?
That would be really great.
Let's use my investment calculator. Here we are. Let's plug in your numbers. Here's the number you are starting with today: $239,900. How many years until the oldest person is 65?
17.
So, what is the number you see on screen right now?
2.1 million.
2.1 million. What we do is we take that number and multiply it by 0.04, which gives us about $84,000 a year in safe withdrawal. Again, this is real back of the napkin, but it gives us a rough sense of the numbers. What do you all think about that?
Too low.
Too low.
Yeah.
I agree, Nicole.
Too low, but definitely closer than where we were.
Yeah.
As an example, just consider that the income you're working with in your CSP is $179,000. Do you want to go to $84,000 in retirement?
Right.
I wouldn't.
No thanks.
Yeah, exactly. No thanks. I'm not going to let that happen. So, what are our other options?
Win the lottery.
Not that option. Oh, spoken like the son of a bookie. Not that option.
Invest more.
Yes. How, though?
Get a raise.
Yeah, I think that's right on. Similar to that, get a raise. Nicole?
I hired a marketing company for the agency in hopes that there's really unlimited potential in my business.
So, grow your business and grow your income. Yes. Can I throw some out, please?
Mhm.
Nicole could keep working. You could not send your kid to private school. Both of you could start a side business. You could take the hundreds of thousands of dollars you have in savings and invest some of it.
Yeah. I want to invest 100,000, 50,000 each just to start.
You want to see what the effect of that is?
Yes, please.
All right. Let's take a look. Here we are back at the calculator. Same numbers. Right now it says you're starting with $239,000. Let's say we add $50,000 to it. So instead of 239, it's 289. Look at the number at the bottom. From 2.1 million to 2.2 million.
It's nothing.
It's not very meaningful. Do you know why it's not that meaningful? Because you're only investing for 17 years.
Yeah.
You don't have enough time for it to compound. So, let's add a little bit more. It was 239. Let's make it 339. Oh, we're at 2.4 million. Okay. You know what really moves the needle is the time. You have to remember, how old are each of you?
I'm 48.
And 40.
Yeah. All right. So, there you go. Because we're talking about a limited amount of time for this to compound, time is really your friend. Let me show you what happens when instead of 17 years, let's go up by one year at a time. Okay? 18 years makes it 2.6 million. Notice how quickly it's growing now. Yeah. Let's make it 19 years. 2.8 million. You're making more from your investments per year than your salary. 20 years, we're at 3.1. Just to make the point, 25 years, you're at $4.6 million.
So by adding eight years, it more than doubles.
Yes.
Yeah.
What does this tell you?
We need to at least put that 100,000 in.
Yes. What does it tell you about your behavior with money until now?
It's not responsible for the retirement we're trying to have.
It's cost you a lot, like hundreds of thousands of dollars, to let the money sit in a savings account. All of this tracking of random categorization isn't worth 12 months of this compounding. Yeah. In other words, you better start investing aggressively today. That's the takeaway I would have. Thoughts?
I 100% agree with you.
Cool. Nicole?
Mhm. I have. Yeah. And I have at least 25 years.
Yeah. You have a lot of time. I don't think you're going to run out of money. That's not the problem here. The question is, are you going to live the kind of lifestyle that you want? And I think it's actually really cool that you both were pretty clear about what are non-negotiables to you, including private school, etc. And I think it's pretty cool that you are like, "Oh, we can stay in our place for a while and save some money there." What I'm trying to do is help you connect all the pieces together so that you can make decisions for your lifestyle right now and for retirement and travel and those kinds of things. What changes do you think you're going to make?
Can you go back to the CSP? Because I think as of right now, I still have no dollars.
Yeah.
To have fun with there.
There definitely needs to be something there. Take a look. You're in the negative for guilt-free spending. Not tenable.
And this is at least a year down the road, but yes.
What do you want to do?
Well, we're going to invest that additional 100,000. I want it to be aggressive for the next two years because I'll be able to work while I'm pregnant.
If it were me, what I would do is I would keep a year's worth of emergency fund. And how do I calculate that? Easy. I go down to fixed costs. It's $6,800. So, I would multiply that by 12. That's $82,000. I would keep $82,000 in an emergency fund. And the rest of it I would invest because that money now is going to be very, very powerful to me down the road. Right now, it's literally just sitting there doing nothing.
Now, if you want to leave a little bit extra, you want to leave an extra 20K or 30K, okay, fine. I always like to be a little bit conservative, but in general, you got like $150,000 or $170,000 that could be better allocated, in my opinion, towards investing if your long-term goal is having a higher net worth. How does that strike you both?
That sounds great.
Yeah, it sounds great.
Good. So that right there will give you a little bit of an edge as you start to invest. Coming down now, your fixed costs are pretty low. Could you cut some of it? Maybe a bit, but not much. You could maybe cut 100 bucks off subscriptions, but what's the point? I would try to get it down to 60%. It's here that is an issue, which is you're investing 31%. You can reverse engineer the whole thing, but just conceptually, 20, 22, 23%, you're quite a bit over. So, let's try to drop this down a bit.
Well, the reason is you're investing for very expensive tuition, and you got a committed $6,000 a year for your niece or nephew. This amount right here, Nicole, this $550 for your niece or nephew, it actually should be a fixed cost. And we could move it up to—we'll call it tuition. By the way, whoever is spending 300 bucks a month on clothes, no more. Sorry. Now you're at 65% fixed costs. You can make it work. You can, but you can't get a new car, and you got to stay in the same place.
So, we're down here. It's looking okay. Savings are at 5%. I don't mind that. You already saved up so much money. You have a fat emergency fund. Your investments are at 31. I don't think that's going to work. Let's just drop this down to 500 and see what happens. All right. So, what I did was I took one of your investment accounts from $1,000 to $500 a month. You're still investing 26%. You now have $411, or 4%, for guilt-free spending. It's a better number. I think this number needs to be higher. I don't think the two of you can get by every month only spending $411.
Absolutely not. I want it to be a little limiting.
How limiting? Because right now it's 411 bucks.
I know. Which is what, $100 a week?
That's both of us.
Yeah. That's not just you. That's me and you.
I know. I upped the grocery because I want to reel this in in order to make the long-term goal happen. So 400 might not be enough, but I want it to be a low number because the other things are far more important to me now than being able to dine out.
Can I make a point? I actually think it's really cool that you are doing this ahead of getting married. You are thinking about some kind of tricky questions about combining quite different lifestyles, and there are some obligations that we have, taking care of niece or nephew. There's a potential baby, but we don't know when, and then eight years from now there's two—there's a lot of uncertainty. We are not looking for the perfect math at this stage. We're not looking for that. What we are looking for is just general thrusts that put us in the right universe. So when the initial math told us that you're going to end up with $65,000 a year in safe withdrawal income, that's not enough. We all know that. So you needed to make rapid changes, which you did. Okay?
But what is not counted here when we talk about you having 2.6 or 2.8 or 3.1 million is when is Shane going to retire? What's
Not clear here is Nicole's income. And Nicole, you may decide, hey, I have the baby. I can't go back to traveling as a nanny, but I am going to find another way to make income with the baby, right? Or I'm going to wait two years, four years, six years, whatever the number is. So there are lots of things that you can change. You don't have to get it perfect right now.
These are really high-lever things to talk about. Hey, what are the big things that we want to do in our life that will make it extraordinary and meaningful? It's your rich life. I don't think you need to have all the perfect answers today. Okay. As you get older, though, it needs to come into sharp focus. And at 48 and 40, you got to be making some aggressive moves.
So what I'm happy about is that you're talking about this now and that you happen to have $265,000 sitting in cash. That's nice. I think that if you really take time and look at your old habits of relating to money, you might discover, hey, we were doing pretty well in certain areas, but in other areas we were just blind to it. Oh, okay. That's in the past. What are we going to do now?
So when I look at your numbers, I think certain things are pretty straightforward. You have a low rent, huge, amazing advantage. You both have a couple things you're like, "This is important to us."
There are certain things I still don't know the answer to. Like you mentioned, you both would like maybe there's a boat, maybe there's a house on the coast, etc. I actually don't know how to make that happen with your current income. It might not be possible. Might be the case that you rent a boat once in a while or that you do an Airbnb type thing. That might be possible. Lots of creative ways to accomplish it.
I do think that we made some tough assumptions. Like in this entire calculation, Nicole, I assumed your income was already cut by 50%. But it's not. You're actually making an extra $44,500 per month until you have a baby. So that's a lot of extra money that we didn't account for anywhere. My point is, you don't have to get everything perfect, but you have to know the general framework of where you want the money to go. You have time. You have a lot of time before your income goes down. And so I would use that time really wisely.
In 11 days, Nicole and Shane are getting married. Yes, their numbers were messy. The accounts were all confusing and tangled. The CSP took a lot of work to figure out. And there are still questions that we haven't fully answered. Fine. I don't expect perfection on these calls. What I want you to understand is that most couples spend months planning a wedding without ever sitting down and asking, "How much do we have? How much can we afford? What is our philosophy on money?" And to Nicole and Shane's credit, they did that 11 days out from their wedding. That takes a lot of courage.
Here's what I want you to take away from this episode. Every day you leave money sitting in a savings account without investing it, you are losing money. I'm not talking about an emergency fund. I'm just talking about, "I don't know where to invest. Investing feels like gambling." No, we are getting over that today. I have a freaking book, I Will Teach You to Be Rich. You can get it from any public library in the country.
Some of you are losing a dollar a day in lost investment returns. Some of you are losing much, much more. Can you imagine? I came to your hometown, kicked your freaking shoddy door down and said, "Hey, give me $75 today." And then I just tore it up like a bully, like Biff from Back to the Future 2, and I said, "I'm coming back tomorrow, do the same thing again." And I did it every single day. That's what's happening because you're letting your money sit in your savings account. That is the math of compounding working against you. Don't do it. Fix it.
Nicole and Shane, they have the income, they have assets, and now they are starting to have a shared vision. Private school, a home someday, a rich life. Now they have the tools and the urgency to start building their rich life using the money that they have. Now, let's check out their follow-ups.
Hi, Ramit. It is Shane and Nicole. We are a few weeks post interview and we are officially married. Yay. And we had a few updates for you.
Yeah. Hi, Ramit. We both funded our Roth IRAs. I had never had a Roth IRA. So I funded 2025 and 2026, which was really great. We both put $50,000 from our savings into our individual investment account. And we're going to pretty much tranche that out over the next six months, just in case anything happens in the market. What else did we do, baby?
I have separated my business expenses. We hired an accountant, so we have an appointment with him in the coming weeks. I opened a personal checking account to be separated from the business checking account. And then we opened a joint credit card to benefit miles and travel, which is one of our buckets. So thank you again. It was very fun speaking with you. And there's our update. Thanks so much.
Listen up. If you want my help with your specific money questions, there are only two ways to get it. First, you can apply to be on this podcast at iwt.com/apply. Or second, you can join my money coaching program instantly at iwt.com/moneycoaching. In that program, you get access to live virtual events, monthly group coaching calls, live Q&As, and an amazing, huge community of other people like you. Check it out at iwt.com/moneycoaching.
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