Rep. Jill Tokuda on the 2026 Midterms: Cost of Living, Democratic Humility, and Restoring America's Alliances
TBS CROSS DIG with Bloomberg
With the U.S. midterm elections approaching, interviewer Ryuichiro Takeshita of TBS CROSS DIG with Bloomberg spoke with Jill Tokuda, a Democratic member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Hawaii and a fourth-generation Japanese American with roots in Okinawa. The conversation was recorded about two months before the election. It covered what the midterms mean for the United States and its allies, why American politics has become so polarized, and how social media, cybersecurity, and AI fit into that picture. Tokuda's position throughout was clear and openly partisan: she wants Democrats to retake Congress. She also argued that her own party must become more humble, and that Congress needs to reassert itself as a check on the White House.
A Conversation That Began at the Okinawan Festival
The interview was filmed at Hawaii's annual Okinawan festival, which Tokuda said was in roughly its 44th year. She joked that she has probably attended every one, since she is "just a little bit older than 44." She described herself as a proud Uchinanchu (a person of Okinawan descent) and yonsei (fourth generation). She named the villages her family came from, including Oroku, and said she returns each year to volunteer and help preserve Okinawan history, culture, and language in Hawaii. According to Tokuda, it is the largest ethnic festival in Hawaii, and it draws many attendees who are not of Okinawan heritage.
She said the ties between Okinawa, Japan, and Hawaii are strong partly because many people in Hawaii can count on one hand the generations separating them from Okinawa and Japan. The festival is a way to remember the villages their families came from. She also mentioned the Worldwide Uchinanchu Festival held every five years. By her account, more than a thousand people from Hawaii travel to it, and she called it "a bit of a homecoming." Her central point was that people themselves are "the strongest bridge" between Hawaii and Japan, and between Hawaii and Okinawa in particular.
"Everything's at Stake": What the Midterms Mean
Takeshita explained that coverage of U.S. politics reaching Japan mostly comes from Washington or from President Trump's social media posts. He asked Tokuda what the election means for the United States and the rest of the world.
Tokuda answered that "everything's at stake." She listed democracy, the rule of law, human rights, and the strength of the economy in both individual states and the country as a whole. For this conversation, though, she put the most weight on the state of America's diplomatic relationships with long-standing allies. She mentioned visiting many countries in recent years and pointed specifically to Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. Her question was whether the United States is treating these countries "with the dignity and respect that they deserve" after everything they have been through together.
For her, the election is about flipping the majority. She wants Democrats to control the House gavels and the speakership, and she said she would "love to see" the Senate change hands as well. That would let members who have been "chomping at the bit" return to what she called normal, civil diplomatic relations with allies such as Japan and Canada.
Voters' Top Concern: The Cost of Living
Takeshita asked whether voters see the midterms as a referendum on Trump's presidency or are focused on specific issues such as the economy and immigration. Tokuda said they are thinking about both, and that the two are becoming linked.
In her view, the most pressing issue nationally, and especially in Hawaii, is the rising cost of living. Food, gasoline, health care, and housing all feel out of reach. She said the dollar has always had to stretch further in Hawaii and now "just isn't making it." She suggested Okinawa and Japan face something similar, with the yen in its current state not stretching far enough to meet families' needs. Voters want relief, she said, so they are not forced into "impossible choices" between feeding their families and keeping the lights on, or between buying gas and affording health care.
Tokuda then described a shift she believes is under way. Voters are starting to connect their hardship to the actions of President Trump and what she called "a very complicit Republican majority" in Congress. She gave two examples: "pain at the pump" from what she described as a unilateral war Trump has waged in Iran, and higher grocery prices because tariffs now apply to food and basic goods. She argued that this combination, the cost of living plus voters' sense that Trump is making it harder to stretch their dollar, will be the key influence on the midterms.
The Democrats' Trap: Thinking "We're Smarter Than Everyone"
Takeshita suggested that Trump's rise was a wake-up call for Democrats. He pointed to recent developments in the party, citing a Michigan primary and the rise of Zohran Mamdani in New York City, and asked whether this marks a major shift.
Tokuda did not frame it as an ideological realignment. She argued that the country needs to move away from a "cult of personality" in both parties. Republicans have "the cult of Trump," which she associated with MAGA. In her assessment, Democrats are now trying to copy the model that returned Trump to the White House by searching for personalities to attach themselves to. She does not think that is what voters want. People want politicians to "ditch the labels," she said, adding that she did not mean forming a party called No Labels. They also want politicians to drop viral statements that do nothing for them and instead work for them and take action that makes life better. She acknowledged the current debate over socialism within the Democratic Party and noted that Republicans have their own factions, such as the Freedom Caucus. Her view was that people are tired of labels and want to know that whoever holds office understands their struggles and will do something about them.
Asked for one thing her party should change, she checked that the remark would be aired and then answered frankly. She said the Democratic Party sometimes thinks it is "smarter than everyone" and has all the answers. In a world where AI and social media can change the game from one second to the next, she argued, Democrats must return to "that humble place where we began." She expected pushback from colleagues who would insist the party is already humble. She pointed to the 2024 loss of the White House as proof that Democrats have lost touch with voters. Had the party recognized that it does not always have the answers and is not always right, and understood that people are suffering in different ways and simply need help, she believes the 2024 result could have been different. She warned that Democrats will repeat the same outcome in 2026 and 2028 unless they quickly return to humility, so that voters feel they are at the center and that their representatives are fighting for them.
Governing in a Narrowly Divided Congress
Takeshita mentioned that he grew up in New Mexico and Connecticut and spent a year as a researcher in the Bay Area. He said he was surprised by the depth of the political divide. The mention of New Mexico prompted a personal note from Tokuda. Her great-grandfather was interned in Santa Fe, New Mexico, one of a number of Hawaii men taken from their homes, sent to Honolulu, and eventually moved to Santa Fe. She called it a sad memory but said the place holds a close spot in her heart.
On the divide itself, Tokuda said it is painful to see and makes it hard to get anything done in a Congress so tightly split that members sometimes fight within their own parties, which adds to the chaos. Voters, she argued, do not care which party holds the majority. They see 435 House members, or 535 including the Senate, who cannot pass bills to lower grocery prices or make health care affordable. The public judges everyone "with the same paintbrush," she said, so members have to find ways to work together.
She said she has received a ranking for bipartisanship and is proud of it. She mentioned working with Republicans on rural health care, agriculture, domestic food production, and affordability. Her prediction was that whichever party controls Congress next year, the margin will still be very small, and that sharp divisions and slim majorities will likely continue for several years. Members should therefore start "working that muscle" of cooperation now.
Where the Polarization Came From
Asked when the divide began, Tokuda said it is hard to pinpoint. Such changes happen slowly and then suddenly appear as extremism, with each side calling the other extreme. She mentioned the Tea Party on the right and what she called the socialist movement on the progressive side, "and everything in between."
While saying she did not want to blame everything on it, she identified the rise of social media and influencers as a major catalyst. Information no longer comes mainly from credible, established news sources. In her words, "anybody with an iPhone and an internet connection can somehow become news." She argued that this flood of information has polarized the country and individuals, creating an "us and them" mentality. She also emphasized the role of algorithms that pit people against one another because conflict increases content, views, and activity on platforms. In her view the algorithm "is working against us, not for us." As AI and technology advance, she said, humans need to be "back in the loop" and keep control over what is said and how people are influenced.
TikTok and Foreign Influence
Takeshita observed that social media has amplified minority voices but has also kept people divided and made societies vulnerable to foreign interference. He noted that Okinawa has social media accounts suspected, though not proven, to originate outside Japan, and asked about the situation in Hawaii.
Tokuda said Hawaii is like every other state, with children glued to Instagram and TikTok. She noted that she voted in favor of the bipartisan legislation requiring divestment from TikTok. Her reasoning was that a Chinese-controlled company has "almost like the number one access" into young people's minds, and that she has been told parents and grandparents increasingly watch TikTok too.
She described the moment that settled her vote. While the bill was moving through Congress, young people called her office after being connected through their TikTok accounts. They told her staff that the app would not open their accounts until they called their member of Congress. She said congressional phone lines were flooded with such calls from TikTok users around the country, many of them young. "The fact that China could manipulate that many minds in an instant should terrify every single one of us," she said.
She added that around elections in Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan, outside actors can be seen trying to sway voters. Elections should be about people connecting with those who want to represent them through genuine dialogue and good information, not about being steered by an algorithm. She argued that the United States, Japan, and other democracies must work together to keep elections free from foreign interference, which often comes through social media.
No Easy Solution: Balance and Political Courage
Takeshita called social media a double-edged sword: freedom of expression also leaves societies open to manipulation. He asked what the solution is. Tokuda laughed that she would be well off if she had one, then said the answer has to involve balance, while acknowledging that balance is not always a popular word.
She agreed that social media began as an equalizer that gave a voice to people who were often discounted or unheard. Now, she said, it has reached a point where it can harm people's rights and their freedom to think independently rather than being guided by an algorithm or a platform's perspective. Restoring balance will take political courage. She offered several possibilities, framed as "maybe": keeping the youngest children off social media until a later age, divesting from platforms known to be prone to foreign influence, and working with allies to rein in platforms that cross all national borders. She said it would be "pretty foolish" to think the United States could solve this alone. She mentioned a recent trip to Europe, including London and Italy, where officials were focused on AI and the cybersecurity threats they face, and said the U.S. needs to work with them and others to use AI and social media for people's benefit while shielding them from the worst effects.
A "Digital Alliance"
Takeshita suggested that, alongside military alliances, a kind of cyber alliance is needed, drawing on the experience of Europe and Taiwan in fighting misinformation. Tokuda offered the term "digital alliance."
She argued that warfare has changed. It was once mostly kinetic, involving ships, aircraft, and the like, and still is, but the digital space is now another battlefield. On countering disinformation, she said many U.S. allies have far more experience than the United States, naming Germany, Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan, along with Europe more broadly. She called for allies to pool their assets, abilities, experience, and knowledge to build a better shield against such attacks, and described this as a national security issue for both the U.S. and partners like Japan.
CyberHawaii and the "Weakest Link"
Asked about CyberHawaii, an organization listed in her biography, Tokuda said she was involved in its infancy and that it has since grown considerably. She described it as an early recognition that security was moving into the digital space. The weakest link, she said, would not be the large supercomputers and servers at utilities. It would be "that small room off the side" where someone has plugged in another server, creating an entry point for hackers.
The organization's focus, as she described it, was improving "cyber hygiene" across Hawaii. That meant helping small and medium-sized businesses build robust security and get the training they need to work with the federal government without becoming a liability because of outdated or nonexistent cybersecurity. The scope ran from utilities, universities, and hospitals down to small businesses that contract with the federal government but may not understand what a firewall is, why they should use a VPN, or how to spot a phishing email. She said the experience helped her understand digital threats and vulnerabilities, and she now draws on it in Congress when considering federal policies and resources to keep people digitally safe.
"Team Guardrails" on AI
Takeshita noted that AI has become a key battleground in U.S.–China competition and mentioned Chinese AI models. He asked how Tokuda approaches the issue. She said she is "definitely on team guardrails."
She acknowledged that some people believe the race to AGI, and eventually ASI, is fully under way, that the U.S. is behind, and that it should therefore throw everything at it without guardrails in order to beat China. She disagreed. She recounted a question she put to a panel of experts on the House Select Committee on the Strategic Competition with China, on which she serves: what happens when the threat comes not from a nation-state or ordinary non-state actor but from an AI system itself? She called this an existential question. She also argued that the world may not be far from a scenario where the threat is not China, Russia, or North Korea but an out-of-control rogue system that has escaped its sandbox and is attacking U.S. systems.
That raised what she sees as a practical gap. If such a system disguised itself as a Chinese or Russian actor, how would anyone know? Can its origin be verified and validated? In her assessment, the U.S. is "really behind" on validation and verification systems and research, and needs to invest more there. Referring to science fiction, she said, "We've seen all of these movies. It does not end well." Her prescription was to build in guardrails and verification throughout the development process, and to ensure there is "100% always a human in the loop" for critical decisions, such as whether to fire a missile at a small town. She rejected a hands-off approach of reaching the finish line first and figuring out the rest later. In her view, once AGI arrives without protections already in place, "it's over," because control of such an entity would be lost.
AI on the Campaign Trail: Data Centers and Rising Costs
Asked whether AI is a midterm issue, Tokuda said people recognize that AI is here. She gave the examples of parents trying to stop children from using it for schoolwork and professors returning to paper "blue books" for exams to prevent cheating.
The concern she hears most, especially from rural communities, is about data centers. People worry that data centers built nearby will make their lives more expensive when electricity and fuel costs are already "through the roof." They also fear the centers will be "energy suckers" and "resource suckers," including of water, which she said is already limited in many places and especially in Hawaii. In her account, residents worry that large companies such as Meta and Google will prioritize winning the AI race over the people who live near these facilities and bear the costs.
Tokuda said Democrats and Republicans largely agree that AI cannot advance "on the backs of our people." She questioned, however, whether Republicans will have the courage to put forward a bill establishing the boundaries she thinks are needed to protect people from those costs.
Contradictions in the White House and Congress's Role
Takeshita noted that President Trump appears to be considering tougher AI regulation while also not wanting to interfere with the free market, and asked again where the balance lies. Tokuda said much of what Trump says is contradictory and that what he says and what he does often differ. She gave agriculture as an example. Trump professes to love farmers and ranchers, she said, yet allows a "glut of foreign beef" to come in at 25% lower cost, which she argued will hurt local farmers. She said AI follows the same pattern: expressing belief in guardrails while opening the door wide for industry figures who, she alleged, have donated millions of dollars to his campaign and his efforts to rebuild Washington, D.C.
Given those contradictions, Tokuda said Congress must show leadership and courage. Otherwise, she warned, AI will advance at the expense of ordinary Americans, things will become more expensive, and people will lose freedoms and rights. She reframed the idea of "balance" as the balance of powers in the American system, arguing that Congress should take back control over regulation, tariffs, and trade, and focus on AI as an issue critical to every American.
Closing: Apologies to Allies and the Abduction Issue
For a final comment, Takeshita noted that there had been no time to discuss the North Korean abduction issue, in which Tokuda has been involved, and asked again what the election means for the U.S., Japan, and democracy.
Tokuda acknowledged her bias: she wants Democrats to win both the House and the Senate, mainly so the U.S. can restore its diplomatic friendships. She said she has apologized in Japan, in South Korea, and in "too many places to too many high level people" for the tariffs imposed on America's allies. Alliances, she argued, are "about the long game" and are "not transactional." They depend on sticking together in good times and bad, and cannot be assessed through "a ledger sheet." They must rest on long-term trust and shared history. She described her hope for the midterms as righting things on the rule of law, adherence to the Constitution, the balance of government, and diplomatic ties.
She added that she appreciates delegations that visit Hawaii or Washington and meet with members of Congress, because they understand that the relationship between the two countries is not only about the president. Congress also helps sustain it. She closed by saying she plans to speak on the House floor in a couple of weeks about the North Korean abduction issue, wearing the blue ribbon that many people in Japan wear, to remind people that those who were taken will not be forgotten. She said the issue shows the cruelty with which adversaries operate, and that this is why allies like Japan and the United States must stand together.
American
How I know
Congresswoman Jill Tokuda, welcome to our show.
Thank you for having me. Aloha.
Aloha. Konnichiwa. I heard you are fourth-generation Japanese American with roots in Okinawa. What's the sign saying? Okinawan festival.
We are in the middle of our annual Okinawan festival. 44th year, I believe. And I hate to admit this, but I think I've gone to every single one of them since I am just a little bit older than 44 years old. But as a proud Uchinanchu, yonsei, fourth generation, my family came from Gushikawa, Oroku, Tomigusuku, and Goeku. I'm always very proud to be able to come back to the Okinawan festival to volunteer, to be a part of the preservation of our history, our culture, our language right here in Hawaii.
And I will tell you it is the largest ethnic festival in Hawaii. Every single year people come whether they're Uchinanchu or not. So very proud to be here and to be a part of this celebration.
So the ties between Okinawa and Hawaii is very strong.
It is. If you think about it, many of us can count on one hand the generations removed we are from Okinawa and Japan as well. And so this is kind of a gathering where we actually celebrate to remember the villages that we came from. Every five years, as you know, there's the worldwide Uchinanchu celebration, the taikai. Many from Hawaii, over a thousand actually from Hawaii, go back every five years. It's a bit of a homecoming, if you will.
And so the ties between Okinawa, Japan and Hawaii are absolutely strong and continue through the people. I really do believe that the people are the bridge, the strongest bridge that exists between Hawaii and Japan, and in this particular case, talking about Hawaii, Okinawa.
Thank you. So today's topic is about the US midterm election and how that will affect not only citizens in the United States but also people around the world, especially Okinawa and also Japan, because we see a lot of reports from the United States. They're mostly from Washington, DC, or some social media posts from President Trump. So I really want to hear your insights and thoughts on this issue. First of all, could you lay out or walk us through what this election means not only to the United States but also to the rest of the world?
That's a great question. And as somebody in the midst of the midterm election right now, and we've got just basically two months more before the elections, everything's at stake. Absolutely everything's at stake. Our democracy, the rule of law, human rights, the strength of our economies both in our home states and throughout the country, and also perhaps more importantly to this conversation—and I have visited many countries in the last few years—it is the state of our diplomatic relationships and the strength and continuance of our diplomatic relationships with allies and friends that we have long cherished for many, many years, for decades, for generations, if you will, throughout the world.
And I really do think about Asia in particular: Japan, South Korea, Taiwan. Are we treating them with the dignity and respect that they deserve given all that we have experienced and gone through together? And so this election to me is about flipping the majority, having the Democrats back in control of both the gavels, the speakership. I would love to see the Senate taken over as well, and allow those of us who have been chomping at the bit to be able to return to a diplomatic state of relations between ourselves and our allies, very much like Japan.
And so I'm very much hoping that this election flips the majority and allows us to return to normal, civil diplomatic relationships with all of our friends from across the world: Japan, Canada, so many others that we can name right now.
So what are the voters saying? Are they thinking of this as a referendum on President Trump's presidency, or do you think voters are more focusing on more specific issues such as economy, immigration, and so on?
I think they're thinking about both. Right now, most present for them, the most pressing issue facing voters across the country, but I think especially here in Hawaii, is the rising cost of living. The fact that when they look at everything from food to gas in their car to the cost of health care to housing, all of this is feeling outside of their reach. The fact that that dollar that we have always had to stretch farther in Hawaii just isn't making it, is not stretching far enough. I feel like in Okinawa and Japan, you have that same situation where the yen in its current state just isn't stretching far enough to meet the needs of your families to be able to live the life that you want.
And so right now for voters, they're very much thinking about the fact that they want some relief. They want to be able to stretch that dollar farther so they're not making impossible choices between feeding their families and keeping the lights on, or putting gas in their car and being able to afford health care. Yet that's what's happening right now in America. And so that, I would say, is absolutely top of mind.
But there is that shift that you are starting to see where voters are now seeing that the actions of President Trump and a very complicit Republican majority in the House and Senate are resulting in their pain. Their pain at the pump for a unilateral war he's waged in Iran, right? The higher cost of groceries because tariffs now exist on the food and basic products that people need to buy in order to survive. They do see the cause and effect that leads back to President Trump, and that, I believe, between the cost of living and the fact that Trump is making it more difficult for them to stretch that dollar farther, that I do believe is the key influencer in the upcoming midterm elections.
So I think President Trump was kind of a wake-up call also for the Democrats, and Democrats also need to change. And we're kind of seeing a new development in the Democratic Party, such as what happened in the Michigan primary and also the rise in New York City, Zohran Mamdani. Do you see this as a huge shift within the Democratic Party?
I think that is what people are thinking about, in my humble opinion, right? Because I'm watching all of these elections from our seat right here in Hawaii. I think as a country what we've got to start to move away from is a cult of personality in either political party. Think about the Republicans. It's the cult of Trump, right? We call it MAGA, and that's all associated with him. And now in the Democratic Party, so desperately trying to follow that model that Trump created that actually got him back into the White House, they're looking for personalities and people to attach themselves to, to hopefully draw more people into the Democratic Party.
No, people just want us to do what's right. People want us to just ditch the labels. And that doesn't mean create another party called No Labels, by the way, but ditch the labels. Ditch these viral statements that don't actually do anything for them. They just want us to work for them and remember why we are where we are: to be a voice for the people, to take actions that make life better for them, and to be able to espouse values nationally and globally that reflect the good of our country, the good parts of our country.
And so, while I know there's a lot of stir right now about socialism and the Democratic Party, and at the same time in the Republican Party you have the Freedom Caucus, you have their own elements there, I think people are tired of the labels and they just want something done because everybody is struggling right now. And they just want to know that whoever is sitting in those seats gets it, cares about them, going to do something about it too.
What's one thing you can tell us the Democratic Party should change?
This is going to be on air.
Yes, it's on the record.
I honestly think sometimes the Democratic Party thinks they're smarter than everyone and that somehow we have all the answers. We are in a quickly changing world where things like AI and social media can immediately change the game from one second to another. In some way, Democrats have to return to that humble place where we began.
And I know a lot will give me flak about that, saying, "No, we're absolutely humble and we have a lot of humility." We have to approach the voters with that same humility that we started with because we've gotten away from that. And proof that we've gotten away from that and no longer can connect with the voters is the fact that we lost in 2024. We lost the White House.
Had we still kept to our humble roots, had we recognized we don't always have the answers, that we're not always right, that our way is the best way, and approached this from a place of humility and understood that everyone is suffering at a different place and right now they just need help, the election could have been different in 2024. And we're going to repeat that process in 2026 and 2028 if we don't figure that out quickly and return again to that place of humility where the voters, the people, can really feel that, "Hey, I'm at the center of this. They are working for me. They are fighting for me. They represent me."
So I grew up in the United States and I spent one year as a researcher, and I'm very much surprised that we're seeing this political divide. And since Okinawa and Hawaii, we see a beautiful connection, beautiful part of human beings. How can you overcome this political divide in the United States?
Can I ask where you grew up, if you don't mind sharing?
Sure. I grew up in New Mexico and Connecticut, and I studied at the Bay Area for a year.
Oh, you were all over the place. Very good.
All over the place. All over United States.
Well, now that you say New Mexico, it makes me want chili and some of those Frito pies that they sell in the store. Very good.
My jiji, my great-grandfather, actually was interned in Santa Fe, New Mexico. There was a number of Hawaii men who were taken from their homes, sent to Honolulu, and then eventually found their way at Santa Fe, New Mexico. So, while a sad memory, Santa Fe is very close, New Mexico has a very close place in my heart.
But to your question, Anushi, about how you're surprised to see this political divide, and a sharp divide, I agree. It's very painful to see and feel and then try to actually get things done in a Congress that is so tightly divided. At some points they're even fighting amongst themselves, and that creates even more chaos within Congress.
And at the end of the day for the people, they don't care what party you're a part of, if you're part of the majority or the minority. All they can see is 435 people, 535 when you include the Senate, that can't actually move bills to help bring down the cost of their groceries, can't actually move bills to maybe get them some health care that they can afford. That's what they see at the end of the day, and that doesn't help absolutely anyone.
We have to understand that no matter how sharp our divides politically, no matter how small the margins between majority and minority or how big the difference in our views, the American public are judging us with the same paintbrush. So we need to figure out how to work together to actually do something. And that's one of the things I've been stressing with my colleagues.
I got a ranking for bipartisanship, and I'm really, really proud of that. I do a lot with Republicans to move the needle on rural health care, to do a lot of things when it comes to agriculture and growing our own food and affordability issues. But the bottom line is people really need to start seeing us working together.
And no matter who is in control of Congress next year, it's still going to be a very small margin between majority and minority. So we ought to start right now working that muscle, figuring out how we can pass bills, at the end of the day make life better for all of our constituents across the country. Because if I had to guess, we're going to continue to see this sharp divide, this slight majority-minority, for the next few years. So we better start working together to get things done.
So you spent years in American politics. When this divide happened, when did it start?
It's hard to say because sometimes these things happen slowly, and then all of a sudden you turn around and you see this extremism. And first one side is calling the other extreme, and the next side is someone else is calling the other extreme, and we're all extreme, right? You had the Tea Party movement. Then on the progressive side, you had the socialist movement now and everything in between.
And again, I hate to blame everything on this, but I do think the rise of social media and influencers, the fact that information is no longer just coming from credible, established news sources, but essentially anybody with an iPhone and an internet connection can somehow become news. Now, that just data dump and information dump on the people has, I think, polarized us as a country, polarized us as individuals. And that's, I think, one of the things that really was a catalyst towards us feeling like it is an us-and-them situation, a very divided political country, when you've got so many voices trying to hype up the other.
And then at the end of the day, not even a human but the algorithms working to really pit one against the other because that just increases, right, the content, it increases the views, it increases the activity on their platforms. And so, not to just put everything on the algorithm, but to me that algorithm is working against us, not for us. And that's where, especially as we look at the rise of AI and technology, we need to figure out how humans are back in the loop and we continue to make sure we've got control over what is said and how people are influenced.
I think social media had a huge role in bringing up voices of the minorities, but at the same time the algorithms were keeping us very divided, and that also leads to the vulnerability of foreign interference by foreign countries. They are targeting also in Okinawa. There are a lot of social media—we cannot prove 100%, but we assume it's from outside Japan. What does the social media landscape in Hawaii look like?
Hawaii is like every other state where they swear our kids are glued to their phones and they're looking at Instagram, they're looking at TikTok. Remember in Congress, one of the bipartisan things we did, and I voted in favor of it, was to divest from TikTok because right now a Chinese-controlled company basically has almost like the number one access into our young people's brains. And in fact, we're being told it's not just young people anymore. Generations, their parents, their grandparents are also watching TikTok.
And one of the real kickers for me in that debate that really just made me decide we have got to cut, we've got to create a wall, we have got to make sure we divest completely, is when that bill was going through Congress, I had young people calling my office. They were robo-connected there from their TikTok account, and they said, "Look, they won't open up my account until I call my congressperson. You have to open up the account now." Our phones in Congress were flooded with these calls from TikTok users, many of them young, from around the country. The fact that China could manipulate that many minds in an instant should terrify every single one of us.
And so for me, again, really, how do we cut the algorithm to make sure that the humans, the right humans, are always in charge? That is critically important. But we are seeing it across the country as well. Oftentimes when elections come up, Taiwan, South Korea, even in Japan, we actually can see the manipulation taking place from outside sources to try to sway the hearts and the minds of your voters. That should be absolutely out of the equation. That should not be happening. It should always be about people connecting with those who want to represent them. Have meaningful and true
Dialogue, good facts and good information, not being manipulated by an algorithm to determine who they're going to vote for, where they show their support. And so, it's critically important, not just for the US, but Japan and so many other democracies, that we work together to make sure that, especially when it comes to our elections, it's free from foreign interference that often comes through social media.
I think it's a double-edged sword because we live in a world with freedom of expression, but at the same time that means open to a lot of manipulation. What would be the solution to this?
Oh, if I had a dollar for if I had a solution, that would be great. I think this really is one where we have to find that balance. And balance, I know, is not always a popular word with folks, but to your earlier point that when social media started, it really was viewed as kind of an equalizer, right? Giving people with a voice, sometimes often discounted or not heard, a chance to be able to share their thoughts, to connect with people.
And as all things, all good things, we have to make sure that there is that balance between continuing to be that equalizer and then actually where we see it on this end of the spectrum, actually being a detriment to rights and taking away the freedom to make your own independent thought and not one dictated or you're guided to because of an algorithm or a particular perspective of a platform as well. And so I think we need to really dedicate ourselves to that balance.
And it's going to take political courage in some cases to make tough decisions like maybe some of our youngest children should not be on social media until a later age. Maybe we should be divesting from platforms that we know are prone and subject to foreign influence. Maybe we need to start working together with our allied nations, our friends, to figure out how we are going to somehow rein in and find balance over a platform that has crossed all of our borders. To think that the United States somehow has a solution alone would be pretty foolish.
And so, I just came from a trip to Europe where I was talking to folks in London as well as Italy, and they are focused on AI. They are focused on a lot of the cybersecurity threats that they are facing. I see what they are doing. The United States needs to work with them and so many other countries, again, to find out how we create balance and use AI, use social media for the best of our people and shield them from the worst.
I agree. I think we should work with allies like people in Europe or Taiwan. They have a lot of experience fighting this and misinformation. So maybe that will be another framework for cybersecurity. It's not a military alliance, but also a kind of a cyber alliance is needed in this.
Digital alliance.
Digital alliance. Yes.
If you think about it, the state of war has changed a bit. It was once a very kinetic situation: ships, battleships, airplanes, those types of things. And they still are, don't get me wrong, but there is another battlefield at play. And that is the digital space as well. And that is one where many of our allies have a lot more experience than we do in this particular area of countering disinformation. Germany, Taiwan, you mentioned, South Korea always gets it as well. Japan has been on the receiving end of this as well, as well as Europe that we are seeing in other parts.
So, how are we going to learn from each other? How are we going to work together, make sure that we're not in this alone, but utilize the assets, abilities, experience, the knowledge of each country to be able to create a better shield against these kinds of attacks that we are finding? And it's very much a national security discussion for the US as well as so many of our friends like Japan.
I was looking at your bio, and this word is called CyberHawaii. Could you explain what CyberHawaii is?
I feel like I was with CyberHawaii at its infancy. Now it's blossomed into something very big. It was an early recognition that security, again, was going to the digital space, and our weakest link was going to be not the biggest supercomputers and servers in our utilities. It was going to be that small room off the side that some secretary had plugged another server into, and that is the point of penetration for a hacker to enter through. And we've seen that throughout the country.
And so it was about how do we increase our cyber hygiene? How do we help small, medium-sized businesses really create a robust security network, get the training they need to be able to interface with the federal government without being a liability because their cybersecurity platforms are antiquated or nonexistent? So, it was really just kind of an entity that was focused on making sure Hawaii was prepared, from the biggest things like our utilities and our universities and our hospitals down to those mom-and-pop shops that do business with the federal government but perhaps don't understand what a firewall is or why they should use a VPN or what should you look for in case you're getting a phishing email.
We think that everyone should know this, and yet every single day we hear stories about it across the country and across the world where people have fallen victim and prey to it. So it was really important for me to be a part of this early movement within CyberHawaii. It's grown since then, but it was for me an opportunity to really understand what the threats and vulnerabilities are in the digital space. And that's helped me in Congress really now take that to the next level with what kind of federal policies, what resources should you be putting in place to keep people digitally safe.
How can that discussion lead to AI policies? Because artificial intelligence is becoming one of the key battlegrounds in the US-China competition. We see DeepSeek K3. How are you approaching artificial intelligence?
I am definitely on team guardrails.
Yes.
I know that there are those who think that the race to AGI and ultimately ASI is completely on and we're behind the game. So, throw everything at it. Don't put on any guardrails. We just got to beat China, and that's just the absolute end goal for them. Guardrails are essential because, as I asked in a committee once—I serve on the select committee on the strategic competition with China as well—and as I asked a panel of experts once, what happens when we're competing or we're facing a threat from not a non-state actor or a nation-state actor, an unfriendly nation-state actor, but actually a non-state actor that's actually an AI system?
A nonexistent—it's a very existential question, but we're not too far removed if you're thinking about where we are in terms of reaching artificial general intelligence, where the threat is not China or Russia or North Korea. It's actually an out-of-control rogue system that has broken free of its sandbox and is now attacking systems like the United States. How would we even know that this was not China or Russia if it cloaked itself supposedly as being a Chinese or Russian actor? How do we know that this was actually an entity and not a nation-state actor? Can we verify? Can we validate?
The fact is we're really behind on our validation and verification systems and research. We got to be doing more in that particular area. We've seen all of these movies. It does not end well. It does not end well where, at the end of the day, we're not just competing against each other, we're actually competing against an entity, an 'it,' if you will, an AI system.
And so building in these guardrails, building in the ability to verify and validate throughout the process, making sure that there is always, 100%, always a human in the loop when it comes to critical decisions like whether or not you push the button and fire the missile at a small town. We have to make sure that we are constantly moving forward with this approach versus all hands off, let's just get to the finish line first and then we'll figure it out, because the bottom line is once we get to AGI, it's over. It's over. We've lost the ability to control any such entity if we haven't first built in the protections and guardrails required to even get us to that point.
What are the voters saying? Is AI a key topic for the midterms? What are their reactions?
From what we're seeing on the midterm front, it's interesting. I do think people recognize that AI is here, from trying to get your kids not to use it in their schoolwork or professors trying to make sure that no one cheats on their final exam. So, they're going back to blue books and not use AI instead. But I do think that people recognize it's here.
The concern a lot of communities have, especially rural communities throughout our country right now, is the concern that data centers in their backyard will just make life more expensive for them. That the cost of electricity right now and fuel is through the roof, and that these data centers will be energy suckers and, quite frankly, resource suckers. If we talk about water and other resources that are already very limited throughout our country, especially here in Hawaii, that is the big concern: that they feel that these big companies like Meta and Google and all these, that they will pick the race to AI's finish line over the people that have to live and exist around these data centers and the costs that they will have to bear for that.
So, it's definitely turning into a midterm discussion. It's one where actually Democrats and Republicans kind of agree for the most part that this cannot be AI at the expense of our people and on the backs of our people. But it'll be interesting to see if there's going to be courage on the Republican side to actually be able to put a bill forward that can actually provide some of those boundaries, some of those guardrails that we need to protect our people from being completely consumed by the costs that these data centers will put on them.
So I think President Trump is kind of considering tougher regulations, but at the same time it seems that he does not want to get in the way because it's a free market. They want people to invest, innovate. What would be the—I hate to use this word again—but what's the best balance of this industry?
No, that's a great question. And a lot of times what comes out of President Trump's mouth is just a lot of contradictions, if you don't mind me saying. What he says, what he does, completely different many times over. 'I love the farmers. I love the ranchers. But I'm going to let a glut of foreign beef come in here and sell it at 25% less cost so that the local farmers can catch up.' No, the local farmers are going to lose out at the expense of the foreign beef coming in. Again, one of those contradictions.
It's the same thing with AI. 'I believe in guardrails, but hey, let's open the door wide open for these guys, by the way, who've donated millions of dollars to my campaign and to my efforts to somehow rebuild Washington, DC.' There are so many contradictions coming out of the White House right now. To me, this is where Congress has to show some leadership, show some courage, and stand up for the people because if not, AI will move forward at the expense of everyday Americans. Things are going to get more costly. You're going to lose your freedoms and your rights at the same time. This is not going to be good for America and Americans.
So, while yes, it's balance, to me, this is actually where we need to look at the balance of powers that exist in the American system of government, and Congress needs to take back its control over things like regulations, tariffs, trades, and focus in on something that's critically important to every American: AI.
Thank you. So, Congresswoman, we need to wrap up. Final comment. We started this discussion talking about Okinawa, Hawaii, and we didn't have time to touch on the North Korean abduction issue, which you took part in. So, what will this election mean? Same question to the United States, also Japan, also the future of democracy. Could you give us a final comment for our audience?
Well, I am obviously biased. I would love to see us flip the House and the Senate as well, be able to take back the majority. But again, as I said earlier on, taking back the majority so we can restore diplomatic friendships and relationships, that's so important to me. I have apologized in Japan. I have apologized in South Korea. I've apologized in too many places to too many high-level people for the tariffs that have been imposed on our best friends, our allies out there.
This is about the long game. This is not transactional. It's about relationships. It's about sticking together when times are good and when times are bad. And you can't just come up with that through a ledger sheet and determine where we are in our relationship. It's got to be a long-term friendship based upon trust, based upon a shared and common history.
And so for me, this election is about right-siding things, turning things back around to where they should be, whether it's the rule of law, following our Constitution, the balance of government, or again those diplomatic ties that we have with other countries. That's my real hope for the midterms.
And I would just say I truly appreciate the fact that every time we have a delegation come to Hawaii or to Washington, DC, I love that they meet with us and they understand that it's not just about the president. Congress is also there to continue that friendship and the relationship that exists between our two countries.
And I'm going to actually take to the floor in a couple weeks to talk about that abduction issue because, just like so many people in Japan, I will wear that blue ribbon on my shoulder to remind folks that we will never forget those that were stolen and taken. And we always must remind people the cruelness with which our adversaries operate, which is why it's so important that allies like Japan and the United States stand together.
Good way to end our conversation. Thank you so much, Congresswoman. Thank you, Jill Tokuda-san. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Mahalo, everyone.
Article published · Updated