How to Say the Hard Thing: Matthew Hussey on the Text That Changed His Relationship
Matthew Hussey
Many people back away from hard conversations, in their love lives and elsewhere, and interviewer Marie Forleo suggests one reason: they don't know the right words. They fear what will come back, and in long-term relationships they worry that saying anything will make everything erupt. Most people never get instruction in how to do it. In this conversation, dating coach Matthew Hussey works through that problem. He starts with a real message his wife, Audrey, sent him early on, then offers wording for several common situations. His central argument is that hard conversations work best when they come from clarity about what you want, calm about the other person's choices, and warmth instead of accusation.
The Message Audrey Sent
Forleo asks Hussey to start with how Audrey handled a difficult moment when they first met. Hussey jokes that he's sick of talking about everything she did right, but tells the story.
After meeting Audrey, Hussey went back to Los Angeles and began to drift. They weren't in a relationship; in his words, they were "just two people that liked each other." They texted, but his messages grew sparser, and eventually a couple of weeks passed without contact. Then he sent her a message. He can't remember whether it said "I miss you" or "I'm thinking of you."
Audrey replied roughly like this: "Hey, I hope you're well. To be honest, when you send me things like that, I don't really know what to say. We haven't really been that close for a while now. And rightly or wrongly, this message comes across as a bid for attention."
Hussey says it stung, above all because it was true.
Why the Message Worked: Temperature and Openness
Hussey breaks down what made Audrey's reply effective. Forleo calls "I don't really know what to say" a great opening, and Hussey reads it as a way of saying "I'm confused." The line "We haven't been that close for a while now" names a mismatch. The intimacy of his message was out of sync with the actual temperature of their dynamic. Things had cooled because he hadn't been messaging or responsive, and now he was sending something warm out of nowhere.
He singles out "rightly or wrongly" as a powerful structure. It concedes that she might be wrong, and the subtext is that he is welcome to prove her wrong. She didn't call him a non-committal attention seeker. She described how the message was reading to her while leaving room for another explanation.
How Hussey Responded, and What Audrey Didn't Do
Hussey says the message made him catch himself right away. He adds that not everyone will be that self-aware. Some people catch themselves and then double down.
He is clear about what he did. He did not decide he'd been an idiot and propose that they be together. Instead he recognized that he was being an attention seeker in that moment and didn't have more to give, so he backed off. Forleo asks what he actually texted. He doesn't remember exactly, but thinks it was an unexciting reply, "some version of I got it," and he genuinely stepped back.
He also learned something about Audrey: he couldn't behave that way with her. He says there was nothing malicious in his message. He was doing something for himself because he felt lonely or wanted "a hit of connection." But she wanted something different from what he was offering.
Hussey stresses what Audrey did not do next. She didn't text him three days later with "So, what are you up to today?" He calls this another common mistake. Someone sets a boundary, the other person backs off, the first person misses them and reaches out. What the other person learns, he says, is that it was never a standard but a tactic.
When Someone Suddenly Tries Harder
Hussey also warns against a different reaction. Sometimes a person who gets a message like Audrey's tries "10 times harder" to win you back on the spot. If you've set a standard, he says, you can't get too excited about that surge, because for some people it's just a way of reeling you back in.
His answer is consistency. You should be able to say, in effect: if you want to call me, it would be nice to chat, but nothing you do today will return us to the temperature we had three weeks, two months, or six months ago. That temperature comes back slowly, through consistent behavior from now on. If a rush of affection immediately restores everything, he says, the other person learns that this is "all it takes."
Hypothetical One: Their Dating Profile Is Still Active
Forleo moves to hypotheticals. The person you're dating said they weren't interested in seeing anyone else, but their dating profile is still active. What do you say?
Hussey recommends pointing out the gap between what they said and what you're seeing. He suggests starting with "it's made me feel strange." Forleo agrees "strange" is a good word because it feels neutral, isn't accusatory, and most people can relate to it.
His sample wording goes roughly like this. I know you said you weren't interested in seeing other people, but you're still active on the dating app, and that's made me feel strange and a little unsafe. I'm very conscious of who I give my energy to, and I've been giving you some of my best energy on the basis that we're actually giving this a try. That doesn't mean we have to know what it is right now, but I'm taking you at your word. If that's not the case, that's okay. It's not a crime to want to see other people. But I need to know, so I can reevaluate what I'm giving to this situation.
Forleo likes that the framing keeps all the power with the speaker. It doesn't say "I'm waiting for you," "I don't know what to do," or "I'll take whatever scraps you give me." It says that what you offer is valuable, so you're careful about who gets it. Hussey adds that saying it's okay to want to see other people matters. It avoids judging the other person or making them a villain, and simply states that the answer will change how much you invest.
Hypothetical Two: Where Do We Stand?
Next, Forleo asks how to raise exclusivity when you've been casually seeing someone and neither of you knows where you stand.
Hussey says there are several approaches and offers one. Start by saying you're having a great time and it's fun every time you're together. Then say you've realized that when people ask you out, you don't know what to tell them, because the two of you haven't talked about what this is or whether you're really giving it a try.
Then, he says, let it hang there and let them contribute. Forleo calls that a big point. You might follow with "Where's your head at with things?" The goal is to invite them into the conversation, not to ask for something. The stance is that you won't be on the market forever. If someone asked you out tomorrow, you wouldn't know what to say, and you want to direct traffic in your life the right way.
He suggests adding warmth: you feel the two of you have something cool, and you wouldn't want to do anything to harm it if it's heading somewhere you both want to explore. That makes the conversation worth having, because you don't want to go forward inviting in anyone who might damage this if it's going somewhere. The point, he says, is to be intentional.
Hypothetical Three: Before Getting Intimate
Hussey says the same conversation can happen at the point of intimacy, if someone is trying to sleep with you and you don't want that if it's just casual fun. His key advice is to keep the warmth, playfulness, and sexiness. You don't need to tighten up or put up an arm, and the fun shouldn't stop because a hard conversation has started.
His sample wording: obviously this between us would be amazing, that much is clear. But I'm not in a place in my life where I want to do this with someone unless it's because we really like each other and want to see where it goes. If you don't want to see where it's going, let's not do this. We don't have to. It matters to me because I'm being really intentional in my love life.
Hussey argues this doesn't suck the air out of the room. It still acknowledges that two attractive people would have a great time "if and when" it happens.
Hard Conversations as a Life Skill
Forleo widens the lens. She calls these important life skills that apply to any conversation, at work, while traveling, or out in the world. She describes the approach as coming from curiosity and invitation while keeping the playfulness, and Hussey says he likes those words.
Hussey acknowledges that these conversations are called hard for a reason: they take some bravery. But he says they get easier. The more you embrace conversations you used to avoid, the more you build the muscle, until it no longer feels like lifting "this ton weight of anxiety" every time. At the start, though, you have to be brave.
He closes by naming what that bravery rests on: being very clear about what does and doesn't interest you, and going in with a real sense of it. Without that, he says, you're liable to buy any pitch someone makes, because you haven't decided ahead of time what you want.
I think a lot of people shy away, especially in their love life, but I think this broadens out to their entire lives, will back away from hard conversations. At least one reason is because they don't know the right words. And they're afraid. If you are in a long-term relationship, you're like, if I say a lot, it's all going to erupt, and then you're afraid of what's going to come back. Most of us don't have instruction on that. And so I think one of the great things that you do is help us.
I actually want to start with some hypotheticals, but can we talk about how your beautiful, amazing wife, Audrey, actually did this when you all first met each other?
Sick of talking about everything this woman did right.
Yes. Well, we're going to go there because I think it's a perfect example.
When I went back to Los Angeles after having met Audrey, I then started to drift. We weren't in a relationship. We were just two people that liked each other, and we would text, and then gradually my texts became more and more sparse. Eventually, I think it had been a couple of weeks. It had already been a bit sparse, and then it had been a couple of weeks since we'd spoken. And I sent her a message that said either, I can't remember which, it either said, "I miss you," or "I'm thinking of you."
And she sent me a message back that said, "Hey, I hope you're well. To be honest, when you send me things like that, I don't really know what to say." Which is a great start. "I don't really know what to say." "I'm confused" is what that line says. She said, "We haven't really been that close for a while now. And rightly or wrongly, this message comes across as a bid for attention."
That stung, firstly, because it was true. But if you look at that, when she says, "We haven't been that close for a while now," what that's pointing out is that the intimacy of what I just sent, or the affection of what I just sent, is completely out of sync with the temperature of our dynamic. And things have cooled down because you've not really been messaging or being that responsive. So things have cooled down, and now you're sending me a hot message. I don't really know what to say to that because we haven't been that close for a while now.
Then when she said, "Rightly or wrongly, this message comes across as a bid for attention," even that is a very powerful language structure because what you're saying is, "I might be wrong." In which case, the subtext is, "You're more than welcome to prove me wrong." But "Rightly or wrongly, it comes across as a bid for attention." She didn't say, "You're being an attention seeker who's noncommittal and blah, blah, blah, full of..." She said, "It comes across as a bid for attention. I might be wrong, but that's how it's reading."
And when you send that, for me, immediately, I caught myself. Not everyone will be this self-aware. Some people will, or some people will catch themselves and then double down and try and win you over in that moment, which is something you have to be very careful of when you set a standard, is that if someone tries ten times harder to win you over right now, you can't get too excited about that. Because that might be, for them, just a way of bringing you back in.
It's about consistency. It's almost like you have to be able to say to someone, "It doesn't matter what you do today. If you want to pick up the phone and call me, hey, let's have a nice conversation. It'd be nice to chat. But there's nothing you can do today that is going to suddenly make me go back to the temperature we had three weeks ago, or two months ago, or six months ago. That's a temperature I'm going to come back to slowly because of your consistency from this point forward." Very, very important. If someone can just come back and rush you with a bunch of affection, and then you suddenly come straight back up to where you were before, then I know that's all it takes.
That's all it takes.
Yeah. And by the way, the other thing you can't do is if I went cold on her, because this is what actually happened, and I think this is really, really important for people. I did not go, "Oh my God, I'm such an idiot. Let's be together." I went, "Oh, I am being an attention seeker right now. I don't have any more to give. So I'm going to back off."
Did you actually text that, or that's what was going through your head? How did you respond?
What I texted, I think it probably wasn't a very exciting response. I think it was just some version of "I got it." And I genuinely backed off. And I also learned, "Oh, I can't do that with this person." Again, there was nothing malicious in it, but I was just doing something for me because I was feeling lonely or I wanted a hit of connection, but I can't do that here. She wants something different than I am providing.
What she didn't do is, on day three of me leaving it alone, go, "So, what are you up to today?" Because that's the other mistake people make, is, "Oh, it didn't work. You backed off. I miss you. So I'm now going to text you." And all someone learns there is that, "Oh, this was not a standard you had. It was a tactic."
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I'm going to give you a few hypotheticals, okay? And see if anything comes to mind. So, you catch the person you're dating in a lie. They told you they were not interested in seeing other people, but you see that that dating profile is still active on the apps. What do you say?
I think just pointing out the discrepancy between what you're seeing and what they've said is really valuable. Like, "Hey, it's made me feel strange." Strange is a good word. Strange is a good word, isn't it?
Yeah, because it has a neutrality to it in a way. It's not accusatory, and most of us can associate with it.
Yeah, exactly. "It's made me feel strange. I know you said you weren't interested in seeing other people, but you're still active on the dating app. It's made me feel strange, and it's made me feel a little unsafe because I'm very conscious about who I give my energy to. And I've been giving some of my best energy to you on the basis that we're actually giving this a try. And that doesn't mean we have to know what it is right now or whatever, but I'm going on the basis that we're actually seeing what this could be, and I'm taking you at your word that you aren't interested in seeing other people. If that's not the case, that's okay. It's not a crime for you to want to see other people, but I really need to know that so I can reevaluate what I'm giving to this situation."
What I like about that is it's all you. It's all your power. There's nothing about it that's saying to someone, "I'm waiting for you," or "I don't know what to do about this," or "I'll take whatever scraps you give me." What it's saying is, "What I have to offer is very valuable, so I'm very careful about who I give it to." Firstly, it's okay if you want to see other people. That's valuable, right? Because you're not judging them.
Correct.
You're not turning them into a villain. You're saying, "It's totally okay if you want to see other people. I respect that. But I need to know if that's what you're really feeling because it would make me reevaluate what I'm giving to this and the energy I'm putting into it." I think it would be a powerful frame to come from.
I love that. Okay, you ready to keep going? I got lots of these because I got lots of them.
Oh, okay.
Okay, so let's say you've been casually seeing someone, but you don't know where you both stand. It's that exclusivity kind of convo. How would you start opening that up to ask?
There's a number of ways you could do that. One of them is, "Look, I am having such a great time with you. It's so much fun. So much fun every time we're together. But I realized recently, when people ask me out, I don't know what to tell them. I don't have an answer because we haven't talked about what this is or whether we're really giving this a try to see what it is." And then let it hang out there. Let them contribute to that.
That's big.
What do you think? Where's your head at with things? You're inviting them to the conversation, and you're doing it from a point of view of, "I'm not going to be on the market forever. I realize if someone asked me out tomorrow, I wouldn't know what to say to them." So again, you're not coming as a person asking for something. You're coming as a person saying, "I want to make sure I'm steering traffic. I'm directing traffic in the right way."
And also a nice thing to do is to say, "It's been so much fun. I feel like we have something that's kind of cool. I know I wouldn't want to do anything that would harm that if it's leading somewhere where we both want to see where it really goes. So I feel like it's worth us having that conversation because I don't want to go into the rest of my love life doing anything or inviting in anyone that would harm this if this is going somewhere."
So good.
Be intentional about the fact that you are actually—you can even do it at the point of intimacy, right? If someone's trying to sleep with you, you can say to someone—always bring the warmth and the playfulness and the sexiness. You don't have to tighten up, and you don't have to put up an arm. It shouldn't be like all of the fun's over right now because now we're having a hard conversation.
If someone's trying to have sex with you and in your mind you're like, "I don't want to do this if it's just a bit of fun," then say to someone, "Obviously, this between you and me would be amazing. That much is clear. But I also know, for me, I'm not in a place in my life where I want to do that with someone where it's not actually because we really like each other and we want to see where it's going. If you don't want to see where it's going, let's not do this. We don't have to. But that's important to me because I'm being really intentional in my love life."
That's a powerful place to come from, and there's no sucking the air out of the room by doing that. You're still nodding to the fact that obviously you're two very sexy people who will have a great time if and when they do this.
Yes. I love that, and I feel like these are such important life skills.
Yeah, they're really important.
They're really important. Every conversation with anyone that you work with, any conversation, you're traveling, you're out in the world, being able to approach hard conversations from a space of curiosity, a space of invitation, a space of keeping that playfulness.
I like those words. I want to acknowledge that we call them hard conversations for a reason, because they require a little bravery. They get easier. They do get easier. The more you are willing to embrace the kinds of conversations that maybe you used to avoid, the more you will build that muscle, and it won't feel like you're trying to lift this ton weight of anxiety every time. It gets easier, but in the beginning you have to be brave, and the foundation for that bravery is being very clear about what's interesting to you and what's not interesting to you.
To go in with a real sense of that. Otherwise, any pitch someone makes you, you're liable to buy because you just don't know. You haven't really decided ahead of time what's interesting and what's not.
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