A Joint Account, a $1,000 Transfer, and Two Money Cultures: Ramit Sethi Coaches Alexis and Edwens

Overview

Alexis (29) and Edwens (30) have been married for two years and have a 10-month-old son. Edwens immigrated from the Dominican Republic less than two years before the recording. In her application, Alexis wrote that personal finance was "completely new" to him, that she felt she was teaching him while also running the household, and that "the cultural differences feel like we are speaking two different languages." She added: "He still operates like a single man, and I hate it."

30 min read

The fight that brought them to Ramit Sethi was about whether to open a joint bank account. Over the session, Sethi argues the account is a symptom. The real problem, in his view, is a marriage where one partner manages everything, the other sees shared money as a loss of independence, and neither has said plainly what they need. Partway through, he considered ending the session.

The Starting Numbers

Before the conversation, Sethi reviewed the couple's Conscious Spending Plan (CSP):

| Category | Amount | |---|---| | Assets | about $12,000 (their car) | | Investments | about $44,000 | | Savings | $5,500 | | Debt | about $26,000 (mostly the Jeep) | | Net worth | about $35,400 |

The spending split was:

Fixed costs: 71%, which Sethi said was higher than he'd like.
Investments: 6%.
Savings: 12%.
Guilt-free spending: 11%.

He called $5,500 in savings "quite low, especially with a baby."

The Joint Account Fight

Alexis said she had kept the application tab open for about two weeks. What made her submit it was another argument about a joint account. She had raised the idea since before the wedding. Her reasoning was that a married couple should trust each other enough to share money, and that raising a family depends on paying for it together. Edwens had always disagreed.

Sethi asked them to recreate the latest argument:

Alexis: "I don't want to be married if we're not going to have a joint bank account."
Edwens: separate accounts shouldn't be a problem "if the bills are paid."
Alexis: they could each keep their own accounts and have a joint one.
Edwens: why couldn't each have personal savings, plus shared savings for the future, "and that's how it's been"?

Their current system is simple. Both are paid into separate accounts. Each month Edwens sends Alexis a flat $1,000 through Cash App, and she pays the bills and handles saving. The problem, Alexis said, is that $1,000 isn't always enough, and his response is essentially "make it enough."

Edwens explained his side through his job history. His first US job was at Target. He felt he was contributing less than she was and gave her about half of what he earned, which still wasn't enough, but she never raised it. When he got a better-paying job, she suddenly proposed a joint account. He heard that as suspicion: that she thought he would change, waste money, or send it all home. He said she told him she was nervous about exactly those things. His answer was that he hadn't changed when he earned little, and now that he earned more, this was his chance to "show you who I am."

Alexis said she mentally checks out during these arguments. She believes he is stuck on the idea that she didn't ask for much when he earned little. Her view is that she is asking now because he can actually contribute. Edwens suggested that if she wanted a joint account so badly, she could set aside part of his $1,000 for savings.

Sethi read the conflict this way: Alexis wants the two of them to be one unit, and Edwens doesn't want to lose himself. He said he could understand both sides. But he called the arrangement, where one partner sends a fixed sum and the other figures out the rest, "not a plan," "not collaboration," and a source of long-term resentment.

Culture, Divorce Threats, and Listening Without the Old Story

Sethi asked whether they had discussed their cultural differences. They named parenting, money, and family values. He pushed back that there must be countless others, such as food and how they spend free time, and suggested that even whether a couple talks about cultural differences may itself be cultural.

When he asked what would happen if they kept seeing money differently, Alexis said: "Resentment, possibly separation," or "separate lives that are lived in tandem." Edwens said what upset him most was her tying the account to whether she wanted to stay married. He would have preferred she say something like, "Let's work on our budget better, let's work on our saving better, and then maybe let's work on our joint account."

Alexis replied that he shuts down whenever she raises money. She reminded him of a notebook where she recorded each Friday paycheck and how she allocated it, and asked him to do the same. He never did. "I have no idea where your paycheck goes," she said. Edwens began to explain that he hadn't earned much and spent a lot on food at work. Sethi stopped him: "Edwens, those are excuses." He said both of them kept repeating stories about themselves and asked whether they wanted to keep doing that or build something together. Both said they wanted to build something.

Sethi then had each partner respond to what the other had actually said:

Alexis acknowledged she sometimes "take[s] things too far" when trying to make a point, apologized for bringing up divorce in money arguments, and said she wouldn't do it again.
Edwens first heard her request as wanting to know how he spends his money. Sethi said that was Edwens's story, that someone is checking up on him, and pointed out it was "written all over your face." What Alexis was actually saying, Edwens concluded, was that she wanted information. He said he could work on providing it.

Sethi called this "marriage 101." Nothing about their finances had changed, but they had stopped arguing with the versions of each other they had built in their heads.

"So You're Telling Me She Was Right This Whole Time?"

Sethi asked whether there was any circumstance in which Edwens would combine money. Edwens said he would combine for family, and for future goals like starting a business. Sethi pointed out that they already are a family, with a baby. Edwens said he thought he was already combining. Then he asked how it is actually done.

Sethi described the typical approach:

Married couples send all or most of both paychecks into one joint checking account, often with a joint savings account alongside it.
Rent or mortgage, groceries, child care, and eating out are paid from the joint account.
Couples who "read my book" also keep individual accounts, funded with a smaller amount each month, for hobbies or self-care, "no questions asked."

Edwens responded, "So are you telling me she was right this whole time?" and agreed they could do it. Sethi said every woman watching would want to "kill" him. He was also troubled that it took "another guy" saying it. When Edwens asked what the difference was between shared savings and a joint account, Sethi noted Alexis had already answered this: savings is for saving, and the joint account is for spending and paying bills. Edwens admitted he had never responded to her explanation.

The Credit Card Argument

Asked whether he trusted Alexis with money, Edwens said yes, she's good at it, but not 100%. He said she likes to buy things, especially on trips, using the credit card. His rule is that if you don't have the money, you shouldn't touch the card, and cards are for big purchases, not shoes or dresses.

Alexis said the balance was currently about $1,000 and had never exceeded about $1,500. She pays it off, spends, and pays it off again, usually within a month. She sees this as a clear example of their cultural difference in understanding credit. To her, if she has the money, charging a purchase, earning cash back, and paying it off costs nothing. Edwens is an authorized user on her card, sees the balance, and "flips out," not knowing she already has the money to cover it. Edwens said he understood that cards build credit in the US. When pressed on what the problem was, he said, "I don't want to talk about that."

Sethi described his own habits. He uses a credit card for everything, from a pack of gum to an international flight, and never carries debt. He gave three reasons:

Convenience.
Protection: he can call and get a refund if something goes wrong.
Tracking: all spending is in one place.

Edwens said he had read this in Sethi's book but "didn't get it." Now that Sethi was repeating it, he said he might work on it. Sethi pointed out how frustrating that must be for Alexis, who had read the same book and told him the same thing many times.

Edwens then explained the root: he had struggled badly with credit card debt back home, and it had stuck with him. Sethi said he understood, but that "this thing happened to me when I was younger, so I don't want to talk about it" doesn't work for someone who is married with a child. In narration, Sethi said he was frustrated by how unilateral Edwens's approach felt. He also said he wanted to give Edwens grace, because moving between cultures is hard, and he couldn't say how much of the behavior came from Dominican culture versus Edwens himself, since he isn't an expert in that culture.

"You're Telling Me What I Want to Hear"

Sethi then said he didn't believe Edwens's quick agreement. After years of resisting, two sentences from Sethi had supposedly changed his mind. Edwens said he had just been confused about the difference between savings and a joint account, and it hadn't seemed important to him. Sethi replied, "But it was to her."

Sethi told a story from his single years in New York. As his friends started serious relationships, they talked about what it felt like to no longer do whatever they wanted. Edwens filled in the words "trapped" and "ask for permission." Sethi noted that language and asked whether Edwens had felt that way. Edwens said he had, but not now. Sethi's position was that married partners can keep some independence and hobbies, but "the marriage comes first," and "to me it wasn't a big deal" is a single man's framing. He said Edwens would have to recalibrate completely, "otherwise, this conversation has to end."

Edwens apologized to Alexis for not listening to her before and for having to come "all the way here to listen to a different person."

The House Goal, and a CSP Done Alone

Alexis's application asked for help to buy a home within two to three years. She wrote that without getting on the same page, it felt like they "may die as renters." She said she knows renting has benefits. But as a new mom she wants a backyard, a picket fence, and space for a possible second child, and she can't picture space and renting together. Edwens said he was also browsing listings.

Asked what it was like to fill out the CSP together, Alexis said they hadn't. She did it alone and guessed at his column, because he didn't give her answers and she already knew the numbers from paying the bills. She first said she was a "control freak" and didn't mind. Under questioning, she admitted it was frustrating.

Sethi asked why she wouldn't acknowledge that frustration. She said she didn't want Edwens to feel guilty. She believes being the provider matters to him, and she wants to reinforce that, even though behind closed doors she is the one doing the work. Edwens said their incomes were now roughly 45/55. Then he said something Sethi called unusually honest: "I just don't give that much value to what she's been doing." He said that if she stopped, he'd have to do it himself, and that it was simply easier for her.

At that, Alexis got visibly frustrated. She said she has stopped paying bills before, and he didn't step in. The bill went late, and she ended up paying it anyway. "I just feel like you don't care."

Sethi Almost Ends the Session

Sethi described their dynamic as parent and child. Alexis solves problems and explains American finance. Edwens resists, partly because of culture, which Sethi said he respects, but also out of "an unwillingness to listen." Alexis then comforts him by downplaying her burden to protect his role as provider. Sethi said the system does "work" for both of them: bills get paid, he doesn't feel guilty, he sends money home. "It will work until it stops working." Instead of addressing it, he said, they had decided to buy a house, the way struggling couples sometimes decide to have a baby. Alexis said the observation "petrifies" her.

Sethi said he was concerned both were being too agreeable. When people agree with everything, especially about deeply held beliefs, they tend to revert as soon as they leave. He told them there were still numbers to discuss that would make both of them uncomfortable. He sent them outside for a five-minute walk to decide whether to continue.

In narration, Sethi said he was genuinely contemplating ending the episode because every question revealed another layer. He described sending them out as "handing back the reins" they had handed him: "I'm not here to save anybody." He named Edwens's pattern as agreeing quickly to make discomfort go away. He named Alexis's as softening her message to persuade him without ever stating what she needs.

They returned and said they were "ready to play ball." Alexis said they hadn't realized how hard it would be to dig up old arguments. Edwens said they had come to make things better for their family.

The Real Income

Sethi asked Edwens to read the combined monthly gross income on the CSP: $10,251. Edwens said he had thought the household made about $80,000 a year. Sethi remarked "50%" and thanked him for confirming his statistic about how often one partner doesn't know the household income.

It then emerged that $10,251 was only Alexis's gross income. Edwens's income wasn't on the sheet because he hadn't checked his pay stub before coming. Sethi said Edwens was "lucky" this was all the roasting he'd gotten and that pulling a pay stub should be the easiest thing of the day.

Working from take-home pay (about $6,000 a month for Alexis and $4,000 for Edwens), Sethi estimated their household gross at roughly $150,000–$160,000 a year, perhaps double what Edwens had assumed. Edwens's reaction was, "Where's the money?" He said he would be angry, not at her, but at himself. Sethi's explanation was that each partner only sees their own account and there's no unified view.

Sethi also read aloud Alexis's notes in the margins of the CSP. One said Edwens refuses to combine finances "for ego's sake" and is "big chilling since he is making big money according to Dominican standards." Pressed for a yes or no, Edwens admitted he is indeed "big chilling."

Asked what the CSP said about them, Alexis answered "balance." Edwens talked about his own spending on food, clothes, and shoes. Sethi said there were two Edwenses in the room, "the single guy and the married man," and asked to speak only to the married one.

Going Line by Line

Sethi walked through their fixed costs:

Rent: $1,875. About 12% of their gross, which Sethi called "amazing." He told them not to move. Edwens said he didn't feel wealthy. Sethi replied that feelings often diverge from the numbers and cited millionaires who insist they're barely getting by.
Utilities and insurance: $175 for utilities and $1,043 for health insurance.
Car payment: the Jeep is on a seven-year loan at about 7%, around $477 a month. Sethi said they "got ripped off," but it is what it is.
Baby: about $1,600–$1,700 a month, including diapers, clothes, and daycare.
Groceries: revised from $400 to $600. Fixed costs rose from 71% to 74%.
Clothes: revised upward, first to $500 and then settled at $400. Fixed costs rose further.
Phone: Alexis pays $15 a month through a five-year promotion with Visible.
Subscriptions: left at $40.
Miscellaneous: the standard 15% buffer, about $960–$1,000 a month.

After the corrections, fixed costs sat around 77%, leaving just $438 a month for guilt-free spending, which they were clearly exceeding. Alexis confirmed they sometimes draw from savings.

Sethi noted that a very cheap rent usually means low fixed costs overall, but here other expenses, especially unavoidable child care, absorbed it. On savings, he said 12% is good and he wouldn't mind 15% given their income. On investments, 6% was low. Alexis had once projected they would retire with close to a million dollars, and both agreed that wasn't enough. She said they never talk about retirement and it had taken significant explaining just to get Edwens to open a 401(k).

Other items:

Investments: $400 a month to a taxable account covering Alexis's Roth IRA and a house fund, plus $600 to a long-term emergency fund.
Remittances: Edwens sends $200 every two weeks to the Dominican Republic, sometimes $260 if his other son there needs something. Alexis said this was non-negotiable from the start and she treats it like a bill.

Edwens acknowledged he had worried that combining money would lead her to scrutinize his personal savings and remittances, a fear that surfaced when his income rose and he felt her reaction implied he might change. He had framed his higher income as a test: this is where he would prove himself. Sethi said that if his own partner started earning much more, he would celebrate and then discuss directing some of it to the family. The "watch me prove I'm not bad" framing, he said, "is not congruent with a high-earning family."

Repeating Their Parents' Fights

Edwens said his parents, a painter and a woman who did braids, fought constantly about money. His father complained there wasn't enough. They are still together after about 38–40 years and still fighting. Recently, at tax time, Edwens borrowed $1,000 from Alexis to cover bills at his parents' home so he wouldn't have to hear them crying about it on the phone. Asked how long he and Alexis had been fighting about money, he said since they got together.

Sethi said he could easily see them fighting about money for 40 years ("Dang, don't curse us," one replied). He said they had made no changes to prevent it. In fact, as Edwens's income rose, their finances had drifted further apart, and that "compounds over time."

Edwens described norms back home as he saw them: men mostly provide, and many don't allow their wives to work. He said he had been trying to do something like bringing money home to her. Alexis said the arrangement never had a chance to form deliberately. They were long-distance for their first two years, with her flying to the Dominican Republic. When he came to the US on a visa as her fiancé, he couldn't legally work, so she managed everything. After the wedding, they simply kept doing what they'd been doing. Sethi said this is common and that couples can choose which practices to adopt.

In narration, Sethi said their high income and low housing costs give him hope. What worries him is how they talk to each other: they still see themselves as individuals, and they "jab." He noted that bridging two cultures takes time and a lot of conversation.

Standards, Consequences, and the Games Alexis Plays

Asked whether she had ever set a standard, Alexis said she once insisted on therapy. It lasted two or three months and fell off. She said she isn't consistent and feels hypocritical holding him to standards she can't meet.

Sethi said their CSP was actually impressive for a couple with a baby, and they were close to "picking up the oars" together, but kept derailing. Edwens asked whether Sethi thought they could do it. Sethi said yes. Alexis said she had "been here before": financial advisors, employee-assistance sessions, coaching, books, running the numbers. Nothing had become a lasting habit. She admitted she doubted things would change.

Sethi named both roles:

Edwens sought validation from another man instead of asking what he himself needed to change.
Alexis didn't believe change was possible, and Sethi said it wasn't his job to convince her.

When Alexis offered to cut back on credit card spending, Sethi objected: she knew Edwens's view of credit cards was wrong, so why concede it? She then described her strategy. She appeases him on things that make no financial sense to her, hoping he'll give his buy-in later when she needs money for a bill or a decision. She called it "manipulative." Sethi said the worst part is that it doesn't even work.

He questioned why a spouse should ever have to ask the other for money. Alexis said she thought marriage would mean she wouldn't have to. Sethi's alternative was to set expectations rather than beg. He described how he approached his own wife: open to changing 95% of the plan, but with non-negotiables, including monthly saving, investing, and each partner having their own account. Alexis described the tone as "direct… there's no wiggle room. I'm not asking."

The electricity bill came up again. While Alexis was traveling, she asked Edwens to pay it. He didn't, it went late, and she paid it on her return. Sethi said that wasn't a consequence at all, since Edwens got to skip a chore. Alexis said setting consequences "feels so motherly." Sethi read her application line about living paycheck to paycheck and how money fights kill their intimacy, and asked what kills intimacy more than being a parent figure.

Edwens said he was angry and frustrated, but that it made him want to change. If listening to another man would make him better at home, he would take it as a push.

Sethi's Direct Feedback

With their permission, Sethi was blunt. He expressed respect for what Edwens had gone through: immigrating, a long-distance relationship, being unable to work, Target, then a much better job. He also respected what Alexis had done to help. But with a 10-month-old, "it's time to get this locked in." He said Alexis was playing mother to "an adolescent son." Edwens had no reason to change, because if a bill went unpaid, she would handle it. In 10 years, Sethi predicted, they'd be in the same place, the same cycle as Edwens's parents.

His prescription:

Alexis stops fixing and starts setting expectations. A joint account receiving both incomes, bills and savings paid from it "just like in Money for Couples," some money to each person's individual account, and a set savings rate. She stays open to discussion.
Alexis decides on consequences if Edwens doesn't follow through. She agreed, for example, to let a bill go past due. Sethi added that eventually that could mean the power is shut off.
They combine money immediately and divide ownership of tasks. Sethi said carrying everything herself actually disempowers Edwens.

Alexis said the hardest part would be accepting she "can't save him from himself." Edwens said he wanted to be 50/50 and learn to pay the bills. Alexis said that was all she wanted: a partner carrying half the load.

Alexis's History and Giving Herself Grace

Alexis described what she had only recently recognized as financial trauma:

Her father was the original breadwinner while her mother stayed home. He gave money to friends and family and funded vacations.
Her mother then discovered he had been funneling money through an organization. There was a lawsuit, and trust broke.
Her mother became the breadwinner and repeatedly told him he wasn't a man. When he lost his job during Alexis's high school years, and later stopped working after open-heart surgery, her mother took over everything, resentfully.
Her parents are now in a "really nasty" divorce, involving infidelity, with finances "always brewing underneath."
Her mother's advice to her is not to let a man be the reason she has bad credit, and to step in if he doesn't pay.

Her couples sessions had been with her own individual therapist and had focused mainly on parenting. Alexis is a therapist herself, and said she feels like a hypocrite. Sethi said he had been hypocritical too. He fell behind on money meetings with his wife while writing Money for Couples. She pointed out he'd never drop the ball like that at work, and he fixed it within a week. The difference, Alexis said, is that she doesn't take that initiative.

When Sethi suggested step one might be giving herself grace, she said she hears that phrase in therapy all the time. She then became tearful. She said she doesn't get grace from her mother or family, holds expectations she can't meet, repeatedly resolves to "break generational curses" and then feels cursed, and doesn't want that for her son.

Sethi pointed out she had already taken several steps: getting on a plane, sitting through a hard conversation, and coming back after the break. He suggested limiting contact with family members who pull her back, and turning to Edwens for support in those areas. Edwens had just theatrically covered his ears at the mention of such relatives, which Sethi took as a good instinct. In return, Edwens would lean on her for money. Sethi also recommended regular therapy before fights happen, standing money meetings, and seeking models of healthy relationships, since both grew up watching parents fight for decades.

Rebuilding the Plan

Sethi's first recommendation was to put the house on hold. A comparable house would cost at least double or triple their rent, and "you're not wasting money on rent." Their $5,000 in savings didn't even cover a month of roughly $7,000 in fixed costs.

His suggested milestones:

Read Money for Couples together.
Build a six-month emergency fund.
Become a household that pays its credit card in full every month.
Invest more aggressively.

Only after those would they revisit a house.

Edwens revealed they had been looking at bigger apartments at $2,500–$3,000. At $2,500, fixed costs jumped to 84%. Sethi said they should take joy in knowing they can't afford it before signing, and view their apartment as a gift worth over $1,000 a month. Alexis called it "a hard pill to swallow."

The changes they made on screen:

Personal spending: cut from $400 to $100, bringing fixed costs to 74%.
Health insurance: Alexis will shop for cheaper coverage. Sethi said saving $100 a month would matter but didn't change the figure.
Miscellaneous: cut from $960 to $200, bringing fixed costs to 66%. Any unspent amount goes to savings for emergencies like a flat tire.
Clothes: cut to $50 each "because sometimes Ramit Sethi is punitive," then moved to zero in fixed costs and shifted into guilt-free spending.
Baby: kept the same.
529: the $200 a month was cut to zero. Sethi said the baby has time and they don't have enough for retirement.
Vacation: a planned trip next year to introduce the baby to family stayed.
Remittances: the $400 to the Dominican Republic was reclassified as a fixed cost, bringing fixed costs to 69%.

That left almost $2,000 a month, or 19% guilt-free spending. Sethi usually recommends 20–35%, but said that given their shortfall in savings and retirement, it should be lower here. They then:

raised savings to a full $1,000 a month,
added $500 a month to investments (bringing them to 9%),
and brought guilt-free spending down to about $800 by adding another $100 each to savings and investments.

Sethi projected that in three months they would have almost $4,000 more in savings and about $3,000 more in investments. He said they didn't have to be this aggressive. If it proved unsustainable, the right response was to discuss loosening it, not to give up.

Alexis noted she has friends all over the country she likes to visit. Sethi said they wouldn't have to live like hermits forever. He pointed out that their stated goal of buying a house turned out to be infeasible "in 5 seconds," and argued that setting up a realistic plan they can succeed at is how they change the messages they grew up with.

What They Took Away, and the Follow-Up

Edwens said the three-month projection surprised him most. Alexis said she had been running in "an anxious circle" of needing to catch up because of the baby, and realized she has a lifetime ahead. Edwens said he felt like he'd taken a rock off his back. Alexis said she now saw how much she had been reinforcing his habits by always picking up where he left off, and that she needed to change too. Edwens confirmed he would combine accounts.

In their immediate follow-up videos:

Edwens said his biggest surprise was seeing his wife emotional. He said he now understood how to use a credit card properly, and that they were about to open a joint account and start couples therapy.
Alexis said Sethi had opened her eyes to how she had been "playing mom." She planned to state her non-negotiables clearly and was, as she put it, "crying about internally" over cutting back on travel.

About a month and a half later, they reported:

They had been through ups and downs but had talked through their money histories and how they want to parent around money.
They now hold money meetings every Tuesday and are in therapy.
They opened joint checking and savings accounts and have combined their finances in some areas, while each still wants some independence.
They reported about $5,000 in savings. Alexis said combining had helped them move toward their goals faster, "which I've been saying forever."
They are skipping big travel to prioritize the emergency fund.

Sethi's closing reflection was that both grew up watching their parents fight and may never have seen another way to be married. What they need now, in his view, is not only to unlearn those patterns but to be around people who show them that separate finances with a 10-month-old aren't normal, and that admitting nervousness or mistakes to a partner is.

I don't know where to start. I really don't know.

I have no idea where your paycheck goes.

Where's the money?

I would be pissed. Not at her.

On myself.

How much credit card debt do you have?

Right now, like $1,000.

Really?

Yeah, don't do that.

How long is going to take you to pay that thousand?

Not even a month. He sees the balance and flips out.

What's the problem?

You know what? I don't want to talk about that.

Let's take a break.

What did you decide?

We're here and we're ready to play ball.

You're so close to living a great life, but every time it comes into picture, you're derailed. What do you think happens if the two of you keep seeing money differently for the rest of your lives?

Resentment, possibly separation.

You're married, you have a 10-month-old. It's time to get the—locked in. I could see you guys easily going on 40 years and fighting about money.

Dang, don't curse us.

I almost ended today's session midway through, and I want you to understand why. What if you found yourself in a new country with a completely different set of rules, a totally different culture than the one you were raised with? Culture permeates every part of our lives. It tells us how we raise our children, what brand of laundry detergent we use, and who's in charge of the money. So, what happens when those rules change?

Today, I'm speaking with Alexis and Edwens. They're 29 and 30 years old. They've been married for 2 years, and they have a 10-month-old baby. In her application, Alexis wrote, "My husband just immigrated from the Dominican Republic less than 2 years ago, and personal finance is completely new for him. I feel like I'm teaching him while trying to manage our household, and it is overwhelming. We hate fighting over money, but the cultural differences feel like we are speaking two different languages." She also writes, "He still operates like a single man, and I hate it." There is a lot to unpack here.

Let's start by looking at their Conscious Spending Plan, or CSP, and if you want my help with your CSP, you can join my money coaching program at iwt.com/moneycoaching.

Assets, $12,000. Investments, $44,000. Savings, $5,500. That's quite low, especially with a baby. Debt, $26,000, for a total net worth of $35,400. Fixed costs are 71%, which is a little higher than I'd like to see. Investments at 6%, savings at 12%, guilt-free spending at 11%. I have a lot of questions, so let's get started with Alexis and Edwens.

So, Alexis, you applied to come and speak to me.

Sure did.

What was going on at the very moment that you wrote that application?

Funny enough, I had a tab open for probably 2 weeks, and I think what made me hit send on the application was an argument that we had had about trying to open a joint bank account. Remember that?

Mhm.

Mhm. I pushed this on him since before we even got married. We've been married now for about 2 years, and I've asked him this since before we got married. I think as a couple, we should be able to trust each other enough to share things, and money should be the primary thing. He never agreed with that.

I definitely think that when I agreed to marry him and become one and create a family together, I also assumed that finances would be at the crux of that. Being able to raise a family depends on us being able to pay for and support that family, so I thought, why not have a joint account? He disagreed on that.

Was it the first time he disagreed? Was it before you got married?

Yes.

Okay. And in the last case, right before you applied, walk me through that conversation. In fact, can we just recreate it?

Why not? Yeah.

So, you said?

I don't want to be married if we're not going to have a joint bank account.

And then I said that's not supposed to be a problem to have my own account and you having your own account if the bills are paid. That's what I said.

You cannot have your own account. What I'm saying is we can have our own and we can have a joint one.

Why can't I have my own personal saving and you have your own personal saving, plus we save for the future, and then that's how it's been?

We can have that and have a joint bank account.

How does money flow in your relationship right now?

It comes in and it goes out.

Paid? You get paid?

Yeah.

You also?

I get paid.

So you both have a job.

Yeah.

And then the money comes in where? Separately?

Separately.

And then what?

And then he Cash Apps me money.

Okay.

I am the bill payer.

Mhm.

I'm the saver.

How do you know how much to send her?

Because I know how much you spend. Okay, how much he has to pay and—

So you have a number every month?

Yeah.

How much is it?

$1,000.

$1,000 flat?

Yeah.

Okay. So you take that $1,000 and then you use it to pay bills.

Yes.

And that's it?

That's it.

Okay.

Yeah.

Sounds like a pretty simple system. I like simple.

Mhm.

Yeah.

Where's the problem?

It's not always enough. And he is very much like, make it enough. So I have to hold that dilemma.

She says not never enough, but you know what's going on?

Tell me.

Let me tell you this. When I first moved here, my first job was Target, right? My conscience always told me I have to get something better because I always felt less when she's doing more, and then I feel like I'm not doing anything. I was giving her half of it, but it was not even enough.

Okay.

And then I was like, but she never brought it up. When I get the other job, I start making a better amount.

Yeah. Yeah.

She was like, "Oh, we should make a joint account." I was like, "Wait, why you didn't tell me that before when I was working at Target? What makes you change your mind now? I'm making a little— You think I'm going to change? I'm going to change my personality? You think I'm going to be wasting my money? You think I'm going to become a different person just because of that?"

Mhm.

She was, "No, I'm nervous. I think you're going to be sending your money back home and then doing this, doing that, spending money like crazy." I said, "No, why would I change if when I was making nothing, I was seeing myself like I was not doing enough for you? Now I'm having, that's where I have to show you who I am."

This is the argument that the two of you have. And how does it end?

So far we didn't still make the joint account, but you can ask her how I've been behaving myself with that.

I check out. Mentally, I just check out. I just feel like we're talking past each other because he's coming from a place of, "I'm now making more money than I was making before, and I want to show you that I can be independent," and I love that. And also, now that you are making more money, you have more to contribute to the joint pot, the shared pot.

I think he's very much stuck on this idea that when I was making less, you didn't ask me for this much. Now that I'm making more, you're asking for all these things. And I'm like, because you can actually contribute them. That's why I'm asking for them now.

Okay.

If she wants that joint account that bad, the amount that I give her, I think it's enough for her to put on the side for our saving, because we have a saving.

Did you catch what just happened? Alexis is saying, "I want us to be one unit." Edwens is saying, "I don't want to lose myself." And that is part of the conflict here. See, on the surface they are arguing about a bank account, a joint bank account. But underneath, we're really exploring trust and pride, and what each of them believes that marriage is supposed to look like.

Think about Alexis's perspective. Money should be shared because they are building a family. For Edwens, he's got to keep his own account because it feels like proof he's responsible and independent. Think about their views from their own perspectives. I can kind of understand both sides.

But I can also tell you this is not working. This system where he sends her a thousand dollars, and then she manages everything, and then when it's not enough, the answer is basically figure it out. That is not a plan. That's not collaboration. And that creates a lot of resentment over time.

My hope is to help them see this is not working, and it's actually not normal. This is not a healthy way of dealing with money together, and there's actually a much better way to do it. The question is, can they budge on the way they look at money, on the identity that they have created for each other, for marriage, for money, so that they can come up with a healthier dynamic?

Have you two talked about your cultural differences?

They come up.

You have a 10-month-old, right?

Yes.

Did you talk about differences in parenting culture?

Yes.

Yes, we did.

Okay. What other kinds of differences have you talked about?

I think parenting and money are the main ones.

Parenting, money.

And family values, I think, come up, too.

That's it? Don't you have a lot more cultural differences? What the hell?

Oh, yes.

What food? What type of food do you eat? What do you like to do for fun? There's a million I could find in 10 seconds.

Yeah, I guess.

That's a good—

About this?

Yeah.

It just come up?

When it comes about.

Okay, that's my answer.

Yeah, I guess.

You didn't talk about it. In fact, maybe even talking about cultural differences is cultural itself.

Yeah.

What do you think happens if the two of you who see money differently keep seeing money differently for the rest of your lives?

Resentment, possibly separation. Or just separate lives that are lived in tandem, but again separately.

Okay. It was striking the language you used where you said, "I don't want to be married if we don't combine our finances."

That's the one thing I kind of mad about it because that's not what I was expecting for her to say.

Mhm. What would you expect her to say?

If I don't know something, I would learn from it. If you know that you know more about money than me, I would prefer she said, "Okay, let's work on this."

Okay. Have you ever told her that?

No.

Tell her now.

I would like you to say, "Let's work on our budget better. Let's work on our saving better. And then maybe let's work on our joint account."

What?

Just stop. Don't explain it. Just stop. That was great. What's your reaction?

I definitely feel like you shut down when I bring up money. So, when you're asking me now to work on things with you, working on things with you requires us to talk about it. So, if I bring it up and you don't want to talk about it, how do we work on it?

If I write it down and say, "Remember the notebook I used to have where we would put our— I get paid every Friday. I put down what I got paid, how I'm going to pay for certain specific things, how I allocate that money." I ask you to do the exact same thing. You don't do it. How can we work on it? I have no idea where your paycheck goes.

As I said before, I was not making enough. For me, it was not a big deal to just give her what I— And then the thing is, in my job I'll be spending a lot of money cooking, buying food outside, and all that since—

Edwens, those are excuses.

Why are you guys here? You each have a story that you tell yourselves that you seem very committed to. I used to not earn a lot of money, so therefore XYZ ABC.

Mhm.

You haven't— I tried to do that, you didn't listen, so how are we supposed to do this? You all want to keep repeating these stories? Because if so, this will be a very short conversation. Or do you want to create something together?

We want to create together.

I want to.

Yeah?

Yeah.

Okay. What I heard from Edwens was, "I don't like that you talk about divorce when you're talking about money. I would like you to not do that."

Mhm.

What is your reaction to that?

I agree. Sometimes I think I take things too far when I really want to make a point and make you feel something. So, I can apologize for that, and I won't do that anymore.

Great. Yeah.

How's that feel?

Better. I feel good.

Cool. That was great. And the opposite. You said to Edwens, "When I try to talk about money, you don't want to talk about it. When I write it in a notepad, you don't want to write it."

Mhm.

What is she really saying there?

She's telling me she wants to know how I spend my money, what I do with my money.

No, that's not what she's saying. Listen to what she's saying, not the story that you have. The story you have is somebody's trying to check up on me, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. You never even said that out loud, but it's so obvious. It's written all over your face. That's a story. She hasn't said that. What is she saying?

She's just saying she want information.

Yes. So, what's your reaction to that?

I was not doing it, but I can do it. Now, I can work on that.

Tell her.

I can work on that.

Cool. Small details.

Yeah.

But, what just happened there?

We connecting.

Yeah. It kind of feels good.

It does.

It's like, what the hell? But, so much of it is actually listening to what they're saying, not as soon as they start saying words, you bring an old story into the picture. This is marriage 101.

Did you see what just changed? Nothing about their finances really moved, but they finally stopped arguing with the version of themselves that they had created in their heads. Alexis actually admitted that she takes it too far when she brings up divorce. And Edwens was able to see that when she asked about his money, she's not actually trying to control him. She's maybe trying to understand him, which is a totally different conversation.

This is why when we talk about money, we are rarely just talking about the numbers on a screen. We're not talking about accounts. What we are really trying to figure out is what is our identity? What is our relationship with our partner, with money, with the way that we see the world? And can we actually listen to each other without reaching for our old stories?

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You said it, I listened. A lot of you have been asking for me to do more around single people and money. It's time to do it. I am casting a new reality series about love and money. So, if you are single and you live in LA, I want to talk to you. Go to iwt.com/datingshow. And if you got friends who are single in LA, send them the link. iwt.com/datingshow.

Is there a circumstance where you would combine money?

I thought it'd be us having a kid. We automatically would combine money, but that might not be for you. What would it be for you?

First of all, I would combine my money with her for family and everything, but I'm saying for future, I see it like I go more for future, combining my money with her. Like making business.

Okay. And for family, you two are a family.

Yeah.

You have a baby.

Yeah.

So, would you combine your money for that?

Yes.

Okay. That sounds good. Why have you not done it yet?

I do it.

No.

I don't?

No.

How I can do that? Since I don't know, and I want to be clear with that. How I do that?

Combining income is usually people get their paychecks, and when married they send all of the paychecks or most of the paychecks to one place. One place. One checking account. And they have a joint checking, a joint savings account. And that's where all the bills are paid out of. Things like your rent or your mortgage, groceries, child care, eating out comes from there.

Then sometimes if people are smart and they read my book, then they have their own individual accounts as well. And so they have a little bit of money that goes to an individual account, and they can go and do their hobbies or self-care, whatever they like to do. No questions asked. It's their individual money. But most of the money when married is in the joint account.

So are you telling me she was right this whole time?

Okay, so you're telling me when I get pay and she get pay, most of the money has to go in one place and in the same account, me and her.

Yes.

So, yeah, we can do that.

That's it? You just needed another guy to tell you that?

It's not— Even I'm like, what the—

Man, come on. Every woman watching this wants to kill you right now, but even I am like, what in the hell? It just took another guy? That's crazy, man.

What? I told you.

Tell me.

To me, myself, if we have the saving, what's the difference?

Okay.

Between what she's saying, the joint and the saving. It's like, it's not the same, I mean.

So I'll answer that question. It's a good question. But I guarantee that your wife has answered this question already. What did she tell you?

Yeah, saving is saving and the joint is for spending and paying bills.

And what was your reaction to that?

I didn't give her any answer to that, and I didn't react bad, but not good either.

Yeah. Do you trust her with money?

Yeah.

Do you trust her knowledge with money?

Yeah, she's good at it.

Okay. Do you respect her?

I do. But if I really trust her 100% with money, sometimes, and nope, because I know she like to buy stuff, to buy. Yeah, she's a—

Like what? I like to buy stuff, too.

No, if she has to go for a trip, she'll be buying a hundred stuff, using the credit card and everything.

Like that?

No.

Okay. Can I ask you a question?

Yeah.

Because you two have not combined your money, can she afford it?

Yes and no.

Okay.

Because if she can't afford it, she wouldn't be using the credit card.

Oh. How would she do it?

She would do it with her own money. She can use the credit card, for me, for big stuff, not for little things like, let's say, a shoe, a little dress and stuff like that.

Even if she has the money to pay it off?

I mean, she— That's the point. Sometimes she'll be, "Oh, I'll pay it when I have it."

Ah.

But if you know you don't have it, don't touch it.

Have you all talked about this before?

All the time.

Okay. What's your take on it? Do you agree that you're spending on the credit card for stuff you can't afford?

No.

How much credit card debt do you have?

Right now, like a thousand dollars.

Really?

Yeah. Don't do that. It's literally a thousand. It's never been more than like 1,500 at most.

Wait, I thought it was paid.

It's paid off, and then I spend and I pay it off. That's how it goes.

It's okay.

This is a really big point of contention because this goes back to, I think, our cultural differences about money and the understanding of what credit means, what credit cards are, how they're meant to be used. His idea that using a credit card means I'm borrowing money I don't have, when in reality I have the money, but if I can also buy it on credit, get cash back, and then pay it right back after, what's the difference?

And how long you going to take you to pay that time?

A month. That's the point. We have a joint credit card, or he's an authorized user on mine, and he sees the balance and flips out, not knowing that I already have the money to pay it off.

Okay. What's your understanding of how credit cards work?

I understand the credit card point, especially here that's how you build credit.

Yeah. So what's the problem if she has the money to pay it off?

I know she's going to pay it, but you know what? I don't want to talk about that.

Can I share something with you?

Yeah.

I use my credit card every day. I use it for everything. Something as small as a pack of gum, something as big as international flight. I use it for everything. I have the money to pay it off. I'm not going into debt.

I use it, number one, it's convenient. Just pull it out. I don't have to carry cash or all these other cards. Just boom. Number two, there's protection. So if something goes wrong, I can call the credit card and get a refund, no problem, easy. Three, tracking. Because I spend everything in one place, I can track it, I can analyze it. It's all there. Does that surprise you to hear?

Actually no, I read that on your book.

Okay.

Yeah. I read it, but I didn't get it. Yeah. But now you're repeating it, I might work on that.

But can you see how that's frustrating, that your wife has read it as well? She's using credit. We'll get to the $1,000 in credit card debt. But in general, using credit cards for daily purchases, nothing wrong with that if you can afford it.

Yeah.

And she's told you this many, many times, and you were like, "No, no, no." But then I come in and you're like, "Oh, okay."

No, but I'm going to tell you this. Back home, I got very struggled bad in a bad way with the credit card.

Okay.

So since then, that's stuck in my head, and then I think I kept it like it's just a bad habit.

Okay.

Yeah, that's it.

Fair enough. I can understand that. But you now are married and have a kid. This idea of this thing happened to me when I was younger, and so I just don't want to talk about it anymore, that doesn't work. It just simply does not work. You two cannot survive as a couple, certainly not getting clarity, as you told me you wanted, if you are not willing to actually work together. And right now you are not.

I am frustrated by Edwens's approach here. It feels very unilateral. Here's what I'm doing, and not collaborative at all. She's over here looking at the numbers, worrying about it, trying to communicate, and it feels like he's doing this thing where it's just like, "Well, this is what I decided, so figure it out."

At the same time, I need to acknowledge he comes from a different culture. Now, how much of that culture is being brought here and how much of it is just him, that I don't know because I'm not an expert in his culture. But what I can say is it is really hard to go from one culture to another. So I want to give him a little bit of grace, but I also want to help him see that they are trying to create a successful relationship here in the US, and they need to know how to do that.

What I look for when I speak to couples is honesty. I always promise to be honest to the people in my community, always. And you guys came a long way to speak to me.

Yeah.

It's not easy to come into a studio and talk about all these numbers and issues. It's not easy. I appreciate that. The last thing I want to have happen is you tell me what you think I want to hear. You're actually going to resent this conversation if that is what you do. And right now I get the sense you're telling me what I want to hear. I don't find it believable that for years you have resisted against combining money, and then I give you two sentences and you go, "Okay, we can do—"

No, I was just confusing between the saving and joint. To me, it was not a big deal.

But it was to her.

I didn't see it like a big deal. That's all I can say. To get pay and then not having the joint account, to me it was not that important.

Yeah. When I was single, I was living in New York. I was going out a lot. I was really enjoying being a single guy. And I had a lot of friends who were single guys, too. And we enjoyed the independence of being able to go out whenever we want, do whatever we want. And one by one, friends started to get into serious relationships. Kind of at the age where that relationship is probably going to be the person you propose to. And we would talk about it.

What does it feel like to not be able to do whatever we want? And suddenly we have to start, "I got to check with my girlfriend," and it feels like—

You're trapped.

That's one way to look at it. Or another way is like, "God, I got to—"

Ask for permission.

Ask for permission, or just think about this thing in a way I never thought about it before. Interesting language, by the way, that you said trapped and ask for permission. I wasn't going to go there, but okay. I'm guessing you have felt that way before.

Yeah, I do.

Okay. Do you feel that way now?

No.

Okay. I think that a lot of times many women are not aware that men think about independence and freedom, even as it relates to a person that they love. Here's the thing. Once you get married, you have to find a way to see each other as first and your unit as number one. You can still have some independence. You are still a grown man, grown woman. You need to have your own hobbies and things like that, but the marriage comes first.

And I can tell that that is not happening right now because even just now when I asked you, you said, "Well, to me it wasn't a big deal." Well, I'm not interested in just to you because you're not just a single guy anymore. You are married, and in fact you are a dad. So, we have to completely recalibrate the way you are thinking about money and your relationship. Otherwise, this conversation has to end.

I agree.

Really?

Yeah, yeah.

So, where do you want to go from here?

I want to unite with her.

Okay.

What do you want to tell her?

I want to apologize with her for not listening to her the way I supposed to before, and then I had to come all the way here to listen to a different person. I'm sorry.

Money is a big deal. And that is the reason that you flew all the way here and you are here today. So, I appreciate the apology. I appreciate you accepting the apology. Now, the question is, can we make some progress on what you both are here for? Shall we try?

Yeah, let's do it.

Okay, I'm in.

Alexis, you wrote this in your application. "Ramit, we really need your help to make a realistic plan to buy a home within the next two to three years. It is both of our dreams to own something in this country, but it feels we may die as renters." Godforsaken renters. "If we can't get on the same page."

Wow.

First of all, tell us about this disgusting plague that is renters. Tell us about that.

I'm at war with myself about what it means to be a renter. I know renting is not that bad. There are benefits to renting. But I've fallen in the trap of being a new mom with a baby and wanting a backyard and a picket fence and an SUV.

What? The baby's 10 months old.

But I'm thinking 10 years down the line. I want another kid.

Okay.

I want space. I think that's what it is, is can I have space and rent? I just don't see the two together. That sounds so crazy.

And Edwens, do you feel the same way about owning a house?

Yeah. Yeah.

You looking?

I'm browsing.

Yeah. Can we take a look at the numbers? What was it like to do the Conscious Spending Plan together?

We didn't do it together.

Who did it?

No.

You can take a guess.

You did it.

I did it. Yeah, I did it.

Why did you not do it together?

He didn't give me answers to his column. So I honestly just guessed. There wasn't really an opening to have a conversation to do it together. So I was just breadcrumbing and putting stuff on the spreadsheet by myself. I think it was just easier to do it by myself, honestly. Because again, I'm the one paying all the bills. I know all the numbers already. So I just put everything out there.

It's got to be frustrating.

A little bit. I'm also a control freak, so I don't mind it.

Oh, you don't?

Honestly.

So what's the problem? Let's wrap it up.

Well, yeah, it's annoying at times.

That's it? So what? It's got to be more than annoying. It's got to be frustrating that your husband resisted combining accounts until another man came along and said, "Hey, you should do it." He goes, "All right, sounds good." And then the CSP, which has explicit instructions to do it together, and then you couldn't get your husband to do it. Am I blowing this up into something it's not, or are you frustrated at this?

Yeah. Yeah, it is frustrating. It is frustrating.

Why are you not acknowledging your frustration? It comes across in your application very clearly.

I don't want to make him feel guilty. There's a lot of value for him in feeling like the provider, the husband, the man, and I think I want him to have that, and I want to provide that for him, or reinforce that for him. But it is frustrating that I feel like behind closed doors I'm doing that.

Edwens, is that an issue, being the provider, the man?

At first I used to feel like that, but now I feel like I'm not going to say we 50/50, but I can say it's like 45 and 50. Yeah.

But 45/55?

No, 45/55.

Income?

Yeah.

Okay. And then what about the fact that she is doing all of the work with the money?

I just don't give that much value to what she's been doing.

That's kind of honest. I never heard a guy admit that before.

Yeah, that's—

Stopped?

I'll have to do it myself.

Yeah, why don't you?

I would say, I just say it's more simple for her.

Oh, yeah. Simple, she's better at it.

Now I'm getting frustrated.

No, no, wait.

Oh, really?

Now I'm actually getting frustrated.

Tell me.

If I literally stopped paying the bills, which I've done, you don't step in to actually do them. So, to say that you'll just, "I'll have to do it," you don't. And then the bill doesn't get paid, and then it's late. And then you still don't do it, so then I just do it.

So, I'd rather you just sit here, and I'm sorry that I'm actually getting frustrated. I don't want to, again, make you feel attacked and defensive. But you really don't care. I just feel like you don't care.

I don't really like to be apologizing that much, but I'm sorry, Alexis. I'm sorry.

I think this goes beyond apologizing.

Yeah.

I actually think if we were to just wrap it up right now, what do you think would happen?

Things will go back to the way they already are.

Yeah. I don't know if you see the dynamic between the two of you, which is, Alexis, you have taken on this role of, "I'm going to solve things. In many ways, I'm going to be the mother figure," the parent-child dynamic. And he came here from another country. He didn't understand how credit works, so, "I have to do it and explain it." But then when you do, he is resistant, in part because of culture, which I respect. Coming to a different culture, American finance is very confusing from the outside. But also an unwillingness to listen. I don't think you are listening to what your wife is saying.

Meanwhile, it goes back. You then attempt to comfort him because of this perception you have that the provider and he needs to be the man in a relationship, and a man needs to not be made to feel guilty. So, you say things like, "Well, I'm actually a control freak. It's actually not that bad. It's easier for me to do it myself."

So, I will say, what you're doing is actually working. It is working for both of you. Bills get paid. He doesn't have to feel guilty. You don't have to do the stuff you don't want to do because she's paying the bills and you can send money back and everybody's doing their thing. So, it's working. It's getting you the results that you have built for.

It will work until it stops working. And rather than address this, what you have both decided to do is, "Let's go buy a house. We already got the SUV, let's go buy a house." How does what I just said strike you?

That petrifies me.

But you're the one who wrote in asking for help to buy a house. There is no universe in which I'm in a dynamic like this and I would go buy a house. No way.

Right.

You know people who are in relationships that are not working and they go, "You know what we need to do? Have a baby." And you watch them on TikTok and you go, "What the—" But is that not similar to what's happening here?

It's exactly what's happening.

I'm concerned that you're being a little too agreeable with me. You're agreeing with everything. And when that happens, especially for deeply held beliefs, then the minute that you walk out of here, everybody goes back to the way they were. I'm concerned. There's so much. We pull one layer apart, there's another layer. Then we pull, there's another layer. And we haven't even gotten to the numbers. When we look at the numbers, there are things that need to change and they're going to make both of you uncomfortable. But I'm not sure if you are both ready for that.

You came a long way to see me. I respect that. If you tell me, "We want to do this together," I will do it. If you tell me, "I'm done," I'm done, too. So, I want to propose we take a break. The two of you are going to have some private time together. Go for a five-minute walk, think about what you want to do. I'm going to leave the decision up to you. We continue or we don't, but it can't go on like this.

Mhm.

Okay?

Yep.

Let's take a break.

Honestly, at this point, I was contemplating just ending the podcast because I didn't really know where to go. Every time I ask one question, another layer would come up. And so, I asked them to actually step outside and decide if they want to be here and if they want to continue. I don't do this often, but when I ask a couple to step outside and talk about it and decide if they want to come back, what I'm really doing is I am taking the reins that they have invariably handed to me and I am handing them back. Because I'm not here to save anybody.

This conversation, while I may be facilitating or even probing, it's ultimately up to them what they want to do. Either we are here for a reason and we're going to have those hard conversations or we stop. I don't mind if somebody disagrees with me. I don't mind if they see things differently, but if they tell me what they think I want to hear just so we can wrap this up, why waste the time? And I think that is Edwens's pattern. Agree quickly, make the discomfort go away, move on. But that doesn't work here. That's not what we are here for.

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Hey guys. Welcome back. What did you decide?

We're here and we're ready to play ball.

Okay.

Yep.

Cool. What happened?

We talked.

Mhm.

We came all this way. We have a goal we really want to achieve together. I think we just didn't realize how hard it would be to dig up all our past conversations and past arguments.

Yeah.

It's been hard.

Okay.

I know you said you concern about once I walk out of here, am I going to go back to the same thing again? I would say that's not why we here. We here to make things better. To work on our future. We want to do better for us and for our family, so.

I appreciate that.

Yep.

Thank you. I appreciate you really thinking about it. Here's where I want to go. I want to look at the numbers. That's going to help me ground my understanding of what has been going on. I'm going to ask you a lot of questions about the numbers. If you know them, tell me the answer. If you don't know, tell me that.

Okay.

Okay?

Okay.

Let's look at the numbers. Alexis, can you read me the word in bold and the number next to it for this entire box, please?

Assets, 12,000. Investments, 44,367. Savings, 5,500. Debt, 26,468. And the total net worth is 35,399.

Okay. What do you think about those numbers?

I think our assets are decent. That's our car. Investments, I'm proud of that. And debt, that's the Jeep.

Okay.

So, not bad.

Edwens, what do you think about those numbers?

I think we're not bad, but we can be better.

Okay.

Yeah.

Let's take a look at the income. This time, Edwens, can you read me your combined monthly gross income, please?

10,251.

Okay. 10,251. So, you make about $120,000 per year as a household. Yeah. Did you know that?

Yeah.

You knew that, Alexis. Did you know that, Edwens?

No.

No. Okay. 50%. Thank you for confirming my statistic. What did you think that your household made?

I was thinking about 80-something.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, you make a lot more than that.

Yeah.

Like 30 grand more than that. So, what does that tell you?

That I make good money, I would say. That I make—

Yeah, 40 grand more. Let's continue. By the way, what the hell are all these notes? It's like an essay on the side of the CSP. What is this?

I think those are things that, reflections, I guess, I was having as I was putting the numbers there.

Yeah.

I think that's more just me. That's all it is.

Let me just read some of this. Just for everybody not watching, but listening, on the CSP, there's several paragraphs of notes, which is a description. You have a son, and, "We have a spending plan that helps us achieve our goals. Edwens refuses to combine finances for ego's sake." And then, "Alexis is frustrated. Edwens is big chilling since he is making big money according to Dominican standards."

Oh.

Edwens, answer the question. Is it true that you are indeed big chilling?

Jesus, I was not expecting that at all from—

Yes or no? Yes or no? Answer the question.

I'll say yes. Yes.

Yes. Let the record reflect he is indeed big chilling. All right. Let's go down to the rest of it. Fixed costs. What's that number right there, Alexis?

71%.

Okay. So, that's higher than we typically like to see. Usually like to see it 50 to 60%.

Okay.

It's at 71. It's high, but we could probably bring that down in some way.

Okay.

Next up, we have investments at 6%. Okay. That includes $200 a month for the baby, putting some investment aside.

Yeah.

All right. We have savings at 12%, including sending money back to Dominican Republic.

Yeah.

And then finally, guilt-free spending at 11%. Is that number accurate? You spend $1,100 a month on guilt-free spending?

Yeah, about.

Eating out, travel.

Amazon.

Yeah.

Yeah?

What's about—

So, these numbers are accurate.

All of them.

Love it. Can I just say I love the confidence in that answer? All of it. That's what I want to hear. I don't need somebody to know how much they spend on lettuce every month. I don't care. But when I talk to somebody and I ask them their four key numbers, and then I say, "Are those numbers accurate?" You better say, "All of it."

Mhm.

That means you know your numbers. That is impressive. Well done. Okay. If this is the case at 71%, what does this Conscious Spending Plan tell you?

I think we really try to balance between short-term and long-term fun. So, savings is really important. But guilt-free spending is also as important. I think investments is something that I think we're both trying to learn better. So, that's why it's a little bit lower, but definitely something that I really want to improve on as well.

So, I'd say your word is balance. You are balanced. Okay. Edwens, what about you?

I have learned a lot from her when it comes to that. She enjoy more being out and stuff like that, but me, I'm more home person, but I do spend a lot of, more eating and I'll be spending money on food.

Okay, so that's where—

Yeah.

You see your expenses.

Yeah, and also personal stuff like clothes and shoes stuff.

Where's that?

Clothes here, I see $150 a month. Okay. And that would be shoes as well?

Yeah, yeah. Let's include shoes also.

All right. But it's interesting that when I asked what does the CSP tell me about you as a couple, I heard balance. And then from you I heard, "I like to buy shoes and eat." And I think what you're probably noticing is this recurring pattern you have of answering as a single guy.

Yeah.

I'm not intro— Can I just tell you, we have two people right here. We have Edwens the single guy and Edwens the married man. I'm actually not here to talk to Edwens the single guy. So, can we—

Yeah, yeah.

Get rid of him?

My bad.

All right. Talk to me as Edwens the married husband and father.

I would say we try to have balance for everything.

Does anybody want to make a change to this? You want to make a change, Alexis. If you could change anything, what would it be?

Bring our fixed cost down.

Mhm.

And if we can't bring it down, then at least let's divide it up a little bit more equitably.

Mhm.

Okay. So, speaking of the equity of this, let's look at the income. What's going on with the income here? One person is making $10,251 a month. Who's that? That's you, Alexis. Edwens, what's your income? So, why is it not on here?

They—

He doesn't know?

Oh. The thing is I didn't check my pay stub stuff before I come here, but I will say, let's say if I said how much I make every two weeks, can we get to that?

Maybe, but I don't really want to do the math.

Oh, okay.

You were going to get your ass roasted coming here, right? You knew it. You couldn't even pull out your pay stub? Honestly, walking in here, you're lucky this is all you've gotten. I'm tempted to tear your ass apart. Can't even pull up your gross income? That's the easiest question of today. You knew it was going to happen, right?

Yeah.

Okay. Enough said. I don't need to belabor the point.

Mhm.

You have your net, which I think is because that's how much comes into the account.

Yeah.

Okay, cool. All jokes aside, this is the kind of thing where if you all want to take it to the next level, to be connected—

Mhm.

This is actually the simplest thing of all. Pulling off a pay stub—

Mhm.

We shouldn't even be talking about it.

Yeah.

We should be far beyond that. Cool? So, I'm trying to set a standard for what we do together because this is easy. This should be done, and we have more complex things to tackle. All right. All right, so your take-home pay is 4,000, Edwens.

Yeah.

Okay. And the net income for you, Alexis, is about 6,000. Cool. 6,000, 4,000, roughly 10,000 take-home. 10,000 take-home, but your gross is 10,251. Oh, because you didn't— Okay, you all see what's going on here? This is probably more like, I don't know. I'm picking a number. Don't get mad at me because I'm wildly wrong, but it's something. 6,000, which means your gross income is like 16,000 a month.

Yeah.

That's a lot more money.

That's how much you make before taxes, yeah.

Per months?

Yeah, biweekly is times two.

Wait, if I make— Yeah, 6,000, yeah. That's it. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know what your gross income is, but I know that it's at least $150,000.

Mhm.

So, considering, Edwens, that you thought you were making 80, you're probably making double that.

Then—

That's kind of shocking, right? Where's the money?

Yeah.

If we're making all this money, where is it? I would be pissed. Not at her.

On myself.

Yes.

We don't see the money.

You only see what's in your account and

Then you transfer over. You don't have a unified view of your money. How can you see it if you don't all look at it?

Wow.

So, the two of you make 120 net. That's after tax, which means you make God knows, but 150, 160, something like. It's a lot of money.

So, your fixed cost is 71%. Let's just go through them real quick. Your rent is 1,875. That's pretty low. Small place, but quite low. 12% of net. That's amazing. If it were me, I'd be like, "Don't move. Stay there for as long as you can." What's going on right now? You're confused.

Yeah, I'm kind of confused because... Did you do that right?

Of course I did. This is how I know you don't know our numbers because, yeah, this is all right.

12% of gross for your household, not net. Gross is amazing. And you're like, "Why is this guy saying amazing? I don't feel amazing," right?

Yeah.

Okay, let's keep—

That's how I'm feeling. I'm just being honest.

I respect that.

Yeah.

Two things. Number one, your feelings are often not the same as the actual numbers. That's very common. You know how many multimillionaires I talk to and they go, "Oh, I don't have enough. We're millionaires. I'm not wealthy. I'm actually just slightly making it by." Shut the up. You're wealthy.

Oh.

Their feelings are out of touch with reality, probably the same way yours are.

Yeah.

Okay? Next, we got to go through each of them so you understand.

Yeah, maybe at the end I might be open, yeah.

All right, listen up. Utilities, 175. Insurance, 1,043. Is that a lot?

Health insurance, yeah.

Yeah. All right. It is what it is. Okay, can't do anything about that. Next up, car payment, 630. That's a Jeep.

Yeah, that's—

Until that's paid off?

Hopefully less than 10 years.

What?

No, actually no. I think it was a seven-year loan.

Seven years.

You got a seven-year loan on a car? Why?

The payment was decent.

What's the payment every month?

Like 477.

It's not bad, but it is seven years. What's the interest rate, just out of curiosity?

Like 7%.

All right. You all got ripped off.

Include—

But you used the—

You all got ripped off, but you walked into it. You bought this cool Jeep. It's so cool. And this sucks, but you have it so you can't do anything about it. Let's move on. It could be worse. Baby, this includes diapers, clothes, and daycare. Okay, I was like, diapers cost 1,600 bucks a month?

No, it does include everything, though.

So this is going to go on for a while.

No.

All right, fine. Groceries at 400? That's it? I don't believe that.

No, I would say for the grocery, we can say 600. Let's say 600, yeah.

All right, that's going to change things considerably. Watch this. Watch this number up here, 71%. That just jumped to 74%. Not so rosy anymore. Clothes? I know it's not 100 for you. How much is it per month?

Clothes?

Yeah.

Let's say at least 300.

Let's add more to that because I can tell by your answer it's more. 500.

Oh, Jesus.

The number now, you're at 79% fixed costs. Is that reasonable, by the way, 500 a month? I think it is. Clothes, you go out and buy two shirts. That hat.

You love hats.

Keep it 400.

Great, 400. Phone is $40 total. Is that right? Someone's paying $15 a month for their phone?

I'm paying.

You?

Yeah.

How?

It's a promotion.

How long does that last for?

Five years.

What? Drop the company.

Visible. Visible, guys.

Visible, get in touch.

Visible's fantastic.

I'm giving you a free promo right now. That's amazing.

15 years.

You'd say like, "Oh, it's good for a month." I was like—

Oh, no, five years.

Five years.

Okay, cool. Subscriptions, how much are you paying in subscriptions, Edwens?

60, I'll say. Because between the gym and my phone, and that's your 60.

No, the phone doesn't count. How much is your gym?

I pay like 300 for—

The whole year?

Yeah, yeah.

All right, that's pretty reasonable. Let's leave this at 40, which it was. And then we have miscellaneous, which is stuff you have not counted. We always add in 15% miscellaneous for stuff. In this case, it's $1,000 a month, which is a lot of money. I want to point out that you're at 77% fixed costs.

Now, let's give some context. I don't mind higher fixed costs if you have lower guilt-free spending. Some people are like, "I want to live in a nicer place. It's important to me. We're going to eat out less." That's totally up to you. In your case, that's effectively what you have done. But you're overspending because, look, it now only allows you $438 a month for guilt-free spending, and I know you're spending more than that.

Yeah.

So, what has happened here is you're actually spending more. Are you drawing into your savings?

Sometimes.

Your savings are going down? That's why.

Yeah.

Yep.

And I will point out one other thing, which is you all have a super cheap rent. So, if I see a super cheap rent, that means that I'm like, "Oh, this fixed costs entire category should probably be pretty low." Because rent is the hardest thing to bring down for people. But you have a super cheap rent, but then you have all these other expenses. And child care, for example, unavoidable, but that's really expensive. So, y'all could do it, but it doesn't leave you a lot of extra money.

I think we have to spend less, especially for our personal stuff.

Okay.

And then save more, I would say. That's a good savings.

Yeah.

So, right now your savings are at 12%. Not bad. 12%, I like to see that number 5 to 10%, but if you make more, considering the two of you make more than the average person, I like to see that number up because you can afford to save more. So, 12 is good. I wouldn't mind if it was like 15. Okay? I'm looking at your investments at 6%. A little low, in my opinion. You have 44,000. Have you calculated how much you will have in the future?

I feel like I did that a year ago. I haven't done it recently.

What did you end up with?

Close to a million.

Okay. Is it enough?

No.

Hell no.

Yeah, not at all.

So, how come there's no focus on increasing that number?

I feel like I'm pinching right now.

Have you talked about this with Edwens?

We don't talk about retirement. That's not even a conversation right now. I just got him to open up a 401(k) with this current employer. So, that took a lot of educating and explaining. And so, we haven't even really gotten into it.

What's happening here is way bigger than just a pay stub. Alexis is not just managing the bills. She's also trying to teach Edwens how money works in a country he didn't grow up in. And that includes concepts like credit cards, 401(k)s, joint accounts. All of these things might seem obvious to you if you were raised around them, but they're not obvious to everyone. So, I want to give Edwens some grace. It is hard enough to learn an entirely new financial system while also becoming a husband, a father, building a life in a new country.

Now, I'll give him grace, but that doesn't mean he gets to opt out of this process. Because right now, Alexis is carrying the numbers and the planning and the worrying. She's taking it all on herself. And if they want to be a real financial team, he's got to stop seeing money as something that she is in charge of and start seeing it as something that they own together.

Does it feel weird to have to learn about money from your wife?

It does, but at the same time, I feel good with it because I have learned a lot from her.

And then, when she will talk about, for example, a 401(k), she's like, "Hey, you should open one up." What's your reaction to that?

I say yes, because, of course, I want to have my retirement, too.

Cool.

Yeah.

All right. You have money being set aside for this house. Can you just clarify that for me?

We really want to own something. We've only rented for two years. And again, I've also just lived with my parents before we were married. So, I really haven't even lived on my own long enough, but I feel like the money that we're spending on rent doesn't feel worth it. And I feel like if I was to own something and have space, I feel like I'm actually spending my money on something of value. And so that's what I'm saving for.

Got it. And the way that you are saving for a house, it looks like you're putting money in an investment account.

Partially, and I also have a high-interest or high-yield savings account.

Okay, so I see $400 a month going to retirement taxable account.

Right.

Which includes your Roth IRA and house fund.

Right.

And I see a long-term emergency fund of $600 a month.

Yeah.

Okay. And then there's another question I had on savings. Edwens, it says sending money back to Dominican Republic for family support. Tell me about that.

I do that every two weeks. Sometimes I might send 260 if my son—I have another son back home—if he needs something, a little toy or something. But normally it's 200.

Okay, so 200 every two weeks or 400 a month.

Yeah.

Okay. Any issue with that?

No.

So far, no. So far.

A non-negotiable from the beginning. I understood it and it made sense. So we always factor that into a bill.

Was there something I read in the application or something about if you combine money, then you're concerned that she is going to check on how much money you're sending back?

Yeah, that was my personal saving. I was concerned about that because I feel like she was digging too much.

Okay.

On—

Doesn't sound like it.

I was just scared to have my little saving on the side. I feel like she would have a problem with that, and then that was my concern.

Was it a real concern?

Yes. I told you everything come up to my head saying that when I switch up.

When you started making a lot more money.

Yeah, yeah. I was like—

Kind of weird. You started making a lot more money, and then it seems like you became very protective of your money.

Protective. The way she react, I wish I recall the moment when she—it's like, "Oh, you're finally going to be making money. You might change, things might change." I said—

Oh.

And then I was like, "Wow, why she's reacting like that?"

But can I tell you, if my partner was not making money for a long time, okay, and I was covering a bunch of expenses and then suddenly she got a good job, she started making a lot more money, first of all, I'd be really excited for her. Congratulations, let's celebrate. And then I would also be like, let's talk about it. We got to have some of that money come towards the family.

Yeah.

Right?

But I was not against that. I was always telling her, "If you really want to know who you have with you, that's where you prove it, to see if I'm going to contribute with things in the house."

I'm not into that.

Oh, you're not into it?

I respect that that is how you feel. I wonder how much of that comes from the way you grew up.

Yeah.

That idea you have of now that I'm making money, instead of me contributing to the family, you need to watch me because I need to prove to you that I'm not bad. That is not congruent with a high-earning family. That's not how a couple that makes $160,000 talks.

Yeah, yeah.

They don't even think that way. And what I'm trying to do here is to show you I have earned low amounts of money and I've earned high amounts of money. And I want to meet you where you are and show you how a couple that makes the kind of money you do at your age thinks and acts. I want you to know that. Okay?

Yeah.

You're sending money back to DR? Great. It's not a problem? Great. You're saving money for a house? Okay, we can talk about that. You are overspending every month, that is clear. So, we need to figure that out as well. Can I ask a little bit about how you each grew up with money? What do you remember your family saying about money when you were a kid?

They would be fighting all the time. "We need to buy this, we need to buy that, we don't have enough, you have to go work extra somewhere. You need to find a..." Because my dad was a painter. And then my mom just doing braids. But they used to make money, but at the same time they'd be always arguing.

Arguing that they did not have enough?

Yeah. They wouldn't—

And who was saying that?

My dad.

Your dad was saying that to your mom?

Yeah.

So, your dad was telling your mom, "You're not making enough."

Yeah.

And then what? What did you say?

My mom would be fighting him back.

So, what did they do?

You want me to tell you the truth?

Yeah.

They're still fighting.

They're still fighting?

Yeah, because of money.

Wow.

They're still fighting.

You think they like it?

And they're still together, they're still going through the same problems. Last thing I did when we filed our taxes, I talked to her and I said, "Baby, I need 1,000 just to solve little bills that they have at home because I know they were crying about it all the time, just to not hear in the phone call, 'Can you help me with this?' and blah blah." I said, "Baby, just please borrow me that and I'm just going to fix that problem back home so I can be in peace."

What similarities do you see between your parents and what's going on right here?

Money arguing?

Yeah. How long you've been fighting about money?

Since we got together.

Yeah. And your parents have been married how many decades?

Ooh. They've been together at least for 38 years.

40 years.

Yeah.

You all been together two years. You want to fight for the next 38 years?

No, that's not our plan.

Oh, really?

No.

Okay, good. Because that sucks.

Yeah. We've seen too much. We've seen too much.

Amazing to me that I meet a lot of people who grew up with parents who fought about money all the time, and then they're in exactly the same situation. And they don't go, "I'm sick of this. Sick enough to make a change." They just go, "It's kind of annoying, and I wish my wife would do this or my husband would do that." They don't say, "I'm so sick of this I'm going to find a way to put an end to it." I could see you guys easily going on 40 years and fighting about money.

Dang, don't curse at me.

It's not a curse, it's just reality.

Jeez.

There is no changes you have made on your own that would prevent you from fighting about money. I'm not trying to be a hard-ass. I'm trying to tell you what I see. You came to ask. In fact, if anything, the two of you have moved further apart with your money. As you started to earn more, Edwens, the two of you have moved further apart.

Yeah. I can say—

That compounds over time. Soon it's impossible to get out of it.

Yeah.

So, there's that. And then this sort of idea of roles and man and woman, that's present here as well. I'm pointing this out because a lot of times we do things we don't even know why we're doing it, but it's because that's what we saw growing up.

You're right.

And I think there are cultures where a man handles money and a woman does not. There are cultures. There are also cultures where it's the opposite. Man makes the money, brings the paycheck home, gives it to his wife, she handles it for the entire family. Now, you all can decide what culture, what practices you want to adopt. You decide.

I guess that's what I was trying to do with her, but—

You were trying to do that, right?

Yeah.

Okay, so can I ask you, the way you were raised, does the man make the money and then give it to the wife?

It works. Okay. Because back home it's like if I'm married to her, if she wants to work, she can work, but mostly the men don't allow the women to work. It's like she would be home taking care of the

Kids and the men would be the one who make the money and provide for the house.

Okay.

Yes.

Were you aware of this?

Yeah, absolutely.

And so when Edwens says he was trying to make money and then bring it back and basically give it to you, do you see it that way?

Yeah, I do. But I also think, again, we're in a relationship where the first two years of us being together was long distance. I was flying to DR to meet with him and spend time and then I would go back home. So there was no need for him to send me any money. And then when he ended up coming here on the visa, we were engaged, he lived with me. I was managing everything because he couldn't legally work in the States. So there was never a time where he had to do that, nor could he do that. So that just wasn't our story.

Do you feel like it kind of just glided into where you are today?

I did.

Okay. There was no, okay, let's turn the page on this chapter, let's all sit down.

Things have changed. We're married.

Right.

Let's adapt our accounts. It was just like, okay, we're married and keep doing what we're doing.

Exactly. It was like that.

Yeah. Okay, that's common. It's very common, but we can make a change.

Mhm.

Let me tell you what gives me hope with Alexis and Edwens. They have a high income. That actually solves a lot of financial problems. Because they have a high income and low housing costs, they have put themselves in a position where they can fix a couple things that need fixing.

But you know what worries me? It's not about the income. They could double their income and it would still worry me: the way that they talk to each other. The way that they do not yet truly see themselves as a unit, but they both see themselves independently. And in fact, when they talk, they fight. They jab. It would be hard enough if the two of them were born in the same country, state, even same city. They would have a shared culture. They have a different culture. And so that is going to take some time and a lot of conversation to bridge.

They have hard work ahead of them. There's no doubt about that. But they can do it if they are united as a team and they go through it knowing both of them have a plan and they're doing their very best.

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Have you ever set a standard for what you expect in your relationship?

I set a standard for us to have to do therapy.

Mhm.

It lasted a little while.

How long?

Two or three months.

Okay.

And then it fell off. I'm not the best with accountability.

Mhm.

I also think I'm not the most consistent.

Mhm.

He tells me that all the time. So I think when I'm not consistent, I can't hold anyone else to a standard to be consistent. Sometimes I feel guilty for that. So then I think to hold you to a standard that I can't meet myself just feels inconsistent and pointless.

That's pretty honest. Do you know why I asked the question?

Probably because he gets to do whatever he wants.

When I talked to both of you, what I hear is you're making way more money than you realized. Tens of thousands of dollars. I actually think your CSP looks pretty good. I'm pretty impressed, especially having a young baby. Child care expenses, honestly, it's pretty good. Your rent is super low. You made a couple decisions I wouldn't have made with the Jeep, but it's not horrible.

Mhm.

You're saving, you're investing, your income just went up a lot. That's amazing. And you're so close to, if we're on a boat, both of you picking up the oars and starting to row together. And moving so fast, so fast, accumulating so much, living a great life. But every time it comes into picture, like, oh, okay, let's pick up the oars, let's go together, you're derailed. One of you derails each other, you derail yourself, you're just not ready to operate as a team.

Since we've been here, sitting here and everything—

Mhm.

From your perspective, you see we can do it.

Yes. I have no doubt about that.

Alexis?

I believe that, too, but I just—

Okay.

I feel like I've been here before.

Mhm.

I've met with financial advisors. My job has the employee assistance people that you can have a couple sessions with. I've done all this, the coaching. I've read the books. I run the numbers.

And finish the sentence.

And nothing's turned into a consistent habit yet.

Mhm.

Nothing's sustainable, it feels like.

Mhm. So, therefore, finish the sentence.

I go back to where I started.

Do you believe this is going to change?

Yeah.

You do? I don't think you do.

I hope it does. I hope it does. I doubt it, yeah. I doubt it a little.

I don't think you believe it can change. That's what the end of that sentence was. I've been here before, we've tried it, dot dot dot, so I don't believe that we can change.

What's going on right now is actually one of the key issues, which is I'm telling you, you all are so close. You have a pretty good CSP, but you derail yourself. And then what happens? Each of you played your part. Edwens goes, but do you think we can do it? Basically looking for external validation from a guy. Do you think we can do it? Not asking me, what can I, Edwens, change? What are the three things I, Edwens, need to do right now? Nope, just, "Ramit, do you think we can do it?" Because once you say yes, then I can walk out of here happy because she heard it, and I don't need to convince her anymore. That's your role. That's the role you're playing. Don't disagree with me. Listen. You can disagree with me in a minute. I just want you to hear me.

Okay.

Then the role you played, Alexis, was I've been here before. And I've tried all these things, and I don't believe we can change. Yo, I can't win against that. It's actually not my place to convince you that you can change. That's not my role. I'm not interested in it. I don't do it. Only you can make this change. Not me, not some financial advisor, only you two. So what do you want to do?

What we can do to change.

What do you even need to change? Do you even know?

I'm ready to cut back on things that I think I'm wasting my money on. If I'm spending too much on guilt-free spending and using my credit card, as you say, recklessly or whatever, I can stop doing that. I can set limits. I can set budgets.

I appreciate that you're willing to make a change. That's cool. I think what you just said was kind of a reaction to Edwens. You know and I know what he said about credit cards is wrong. It's flat-out wrong. Why would you say, "I'm willing to reduce my credit card spend"? Why? If someone says there's something that's point-blank wrong, I'm not going to agree with them and then bend over backwards to make them feel better. That's not going to get you where you need to go.

I feel like I appease you when it doesn't really make sense to me or financially, but if it strokes your ego in that moment, then my hope is that you'll listen to me when I make the next financial decision or make some type of a change. So if I have to stop using my credit card just to get you to think that I'm being financially responsible, then when I ask you for money for something later or I need to pay a bill later or I want your buy-in on some financial decision together, you're more likely to say yes because—this sounds so manipulative and stupid, but—

You know the worst part? It doesn't even work.

I know.

Do you even understand what you just said?

Yeah.

It's crazy.

You got what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah.

What did she say?

She's just trying to be on my side when it's not the reality.

Yes.

That was quite insightful, Alexis. That you do all these games to appease him in the hope that he will agree with you. And in my opinion, it doesn't even work.

Yeah, I—

What if you all could stop playing all these dances and games and actually focus on rowing in the same direction together? Wouldn't it be so much more energy put towards a goal? If you want to buy a house, you want to save money, you want to invest, wouldn't that be better use?

Yeah.

Yes. Yes.

This idea, you mentioned it offhandedly just a second ago where you said, "I feel the need to get his buy-in so that when I ask him for money." Why should you have to ask for money? In what world does a husband and wife have to ask each other for money? Why do you allow yourself to be put in that position?

I don't ask to be in that position. I thought being married would mean I wouldn't have to do that.

You thought that being married meant you would automatically—the money would be combined.

Yeah.

Well, it's not. So what are you going to do about it?

Your answer has been to, please, every month, come on, please, it's not enough, okay, next month, please. That doesn't work and actually makes no sense. Aren't you the higher earner as well?

Even though that's the worst—

Ironic here.

Yeah, that's the worst part.

What is a different approach to beseeching, to asking, begging? What's a different approach?

If it's a shared pot that we're both pulling from, hey babe, I'm going to take care of this bill. It's coming out of the account in case you see it. That's it.

Okay. Do you think that I begged my wife to buy in to our finances?

No, Ramit.

What did I do?

Probably had a conversation about it.

Many?

Yeah.

Like thousands. But what else?

I think go through the numbers together to see what the amounts are looking like, budget it out. Maybe set a consistent monthly, weekly—

Yes.

However, transfer.

And did I beg her to please meet with me and please transfer? No, what did I do? I set an expectation.

Okay.

This is what we do as a couple. Yeah. This is important. This is how it works. Now, I'm going to tell you my view. You don't have to agree with all of it. I'm totally open to 95%, changing all this stuff. This 5%, I'm not open to changing it.

Mhm.

This is how it has to be. We have to have savings every single month. That's a non-negotiable for us as a couple.

Mhm.

We have to invest. That's a non-negotiable for us as a couple. You have to have your own account.

Mhm.

That's a non-negotiable for us as a couple. We each have our own accounts. But all the rest of it, if we hit those few things, this is how I think we should do it, but I'm open to what you think. What's the difference in the energy and the attitude?

It's direct.

Mhm.

There's no wiggle room.

Mhm. I'm not asking.

You're telling.

Yeah.

I feel like telling gets a bad name. Oh, we need to ask everything. You all want to have 5,000 buy-in check-ins with your coworkers? No, sometimes you just tell them, this is how it's done. And look, you can disagree. Here's the areas I'm open to discussion, but these ones I'm not. This is how it works. You show up for work. And as a partner, you show up for money. When was the last time you had a conversation like this?

The last time I think I told you I need money to—

No, it was when you were on the trip. It was for the electricity that you ended up paying when you came back. Yeah.

You told him to pay for—

Electricity.

And then did you?

I didn't.

He did not.

Because the thing is, I didn't know.

I don't care about the reasons why. You didn't do it.

Yeah, I did.

And then what was the consequence of that?

It was late and then I paid it.

Doesn't seem like a consequence at all. Seems amazing if I'm in his position. Oh, I didn't have to do this annoying thing and then she came home—

Felt good. Yeah, I felt good.

That's not a consequence. It's just—

A consequence. Yeah.

You ever set a consequence?

That feels so motherly. No, I don't even—I think the consequence is the argument.

I can't think of anything more motherly. Didn't you say something in your application? In fact, I'm going to read it to you.

Jesus.

You wrote, "We are living paycheck to paycheck and it kills our intimacy when he is focused on how much we spent on a date night and I'm just trying to hit home base, if you know what I mean." What kills intimacy more than being a mother or father figure?

Yeah.

Y'all are worried about something that is already here. How are we feeling right now? Because I'm actually feeling a little uncertain. How are you feeling about what's going on right now?

Emotionally, I feel really angry, frustrated right now, but I feel like that's pushing me to just want to change it. I don't want to sit in this.

Ramit, I know you have said that a lot. I have to hear from another man—

Mhm.

To change my lifestyle. But if listening and learning from another man to be better at home for my family is going to make me change, yes, I want to listen to.

Okay, I appreciate that.

Yeah. I appreciate that.

And I want to change my lifestyle.

Okay.

Yes.

I appreciate that.

Maybe I was needing that little push—

Mhm.

To see things clear. From you, from her, I'm taking this as an opportunity—

Good.

To do better. Yeah.

Now, I appreciate that. I'm glad. Actually hearing from both of you on how you're feeling right now is really helpful for me because honestly I feel a little combative. I don't want to. I don't want to. And it's funny because your CSP is pretty good. What I'm feeling as I pull on one thread, I hear another layer and then another layer and I wonder if you would be okay with me just being very direct with you.

Yes, be direct, please.

Okay. I think that I have a lot of respect for you coming to the US in a different culture and going through long distance relationship, then not being able to work, then getting a job at Target and then getting this much higher paying job. Tons of respect. Incredible.

I have a lot of respect for what that also took for you in helping somebody come to the US and realizing the things that we take for granted if we're born somewhere, it's actually not obvious to people. A lot of things that anybody does in any country are quite confusing to somebody who's not from the country. Okay? With that said, you're married. You have a 10-month-old.

Yeah.

It's time to get this locked in. And right now the dynamic here needs radical change. If you do that, you could actually live an amazing life. What does it take? Right now the two of you are not acting like partners. We have a parent-child dynamic. You're mom, you're the sort of adolescent son who just lets her handle everything for you.

And the way that this manifests is in so many different ways. Alexis, you are constantly coming up with different ways of trying to reach him, to try to placate his emotions, and you have these stories about he needs to be a man and feel better and if I do XYZ, ABC, 1, 2, 3, then maybe he will finally see it my way. And you don't realize you've been playing the whole wrong game the whole time.

Edwens, from your perspective, why would you change? You just started making a lot more money and, "I don't want her to meddle too much in my money because she's only asking now,"

Not before, and anyway combining money, I don't know, that feels like I'm going to get looked over my shoulder, and anyway things are fine. I send my money and it all works out, and if the utility bill doesn't get paid, she comes and takes care of it.

Guys, this isn't getting you anywhere. You're just stuck here. If I checked in with you 10 years from now, you'll be in exactly the same position.

Exactly.

It's the same cycle your parents are in.

Oh.

So, there's a way to change it. But it involves radically reconceptualizing the relationship here. Alexis, you are no longer the mother. You are no longer responsible for fixing the money in the relationship. You set the expectations. Here's what I expect. I expect that we have a joint account and that both of our incomes are going towards it. Then from there, our bills are paid and then the savings and all that stuff, just like in Money for Couples, and then a little bit of money is sent to each of our accounts every month. That is my expectation.

Next up, I expect our savings rate to be this. I expect this. I expect that. I'm open and willing to talk about it. If you have a different opinion, bring it. If you're not sure what some of the stuff is, let's talk about it. But these are my expectations, and then you have to be willing to do the hardest thing, which is ask yourself what will you do if Edwens does not follow through. What are the consequences?

Because in the utility case, he didn't learn anything. In fact, if anything, he learned not to do it because you're going to come and save the day again. What would a natural consequence of that have been?

Let the bill be past due.

Yeah. And then past due, and past due, until eventually the power is off.

Mhm.

Now, the question is, are you going to allow yourself to do that?

I can. Yeah, I will.

Okay. And then for Edwens to know this is his responsibility. That means that the two of you, when your money is joint, which needs to happen immediately, then you decide, here is who owns what. You cannot be responsible for all this. It's actually disempowering to him.

Mhm.

You've got to hear her suggestions.

Yeah.

And if you agree, great, do it. If not, you can speak up as well. You have control, you're a partner, but you've got to take on a lot of this as well. Then the two of you can start looking at your money together.

You can look at your actual accurate CSP. You can say, "Wait a second, right now, if we just fast forward, we're not going to have enough to retire. We need to start putting money aside for that more. Hey, right now, if we want to get a house, it's going to take us 18 years to save for a house. I don't want to wait that long. We got to put more money here. We got to cut money here." But we can go through all these exercises, but it's kind of pointless unless the two of you actually start behaving as partners.

Yeah.

That's my direct feedback. What do you think?

I can do that.

Yeah, that's perfect.

That's it? It's easy?

I didn't say it was easy.

It sounds—yeah, yeah.

It's doable. I think it's going to be an uphill battle for me to just, again, accept the fact that I can't save him from himself. Because again, that just reinforces the idea that I'll come in and save him every time. So, I need to stop that, and I will.

Mhm.

I want to be there 50/50 with her.

Mhm.

I want to learn how to pay the bills and everything, so we can be good.

That's good. I appreciate that. It's great.

And all I want is to be 50/50. I just want to feel like I have a partner. So if you're able to carry half the load, I can carry my 50% and not complain about it. That's fine.

Alexis, what do you remember about your childhood when it came to money? What did your family used to say?

So many things. I just realized recently that I think I've been through a lot of financial trauma with my mom specifically.

Mhm.

She's just like our dynamic, she's the breadwinner in my parents' relationship. But it wasn't always that way. I guess before she had my siblings and I, my dad was the breadwinner. When she had kids, she ended up being a stay-at-home mom. And he was working and making money. He, for the most part, would give money to friends and family, would go on trips, fund all the family vacations and stuff like that, and then Mom found out that he, I guess, was funneling money through an organization.

There was a lawsuit. She found out all this stuff was happening under her nose and she had no idea, so there was a lot of trust that was broken between the two of them. Mom started becoming the breadwinner at a certain point. She would throw that in his face a lot, so they were always fighting about money in the house and saying, "You're not a man because I'm doing this, and you can't provide for the kids, and blah blah blah." So I was always seeing that.

Then my dad lost his job when I was in high school. My mom threw that in his face for years. And then he ended up having open-heart surgery. And then just stopped working from there, and my mom took over everything and was resentful, but still did everything. And now they're getting a divorce.

Now?

Now.

Why now?

Well, there's infidelity, stuff like that, but financial stuff was obviously always brewing underneath all of that. So, now they're getting a divorce, and it's really nasty. So, that scares me, and all that's happening while we're raising a child, we're living together, we want to buy a house.

Mhm.

And I have no one to look to for support because my mom is like, "You're the woman. You got to take care. Don't let a man be the reason why you have bad credit. So, if he doesn't pay something, you better get in there and take care of it."

It's a lot.

Yeah.

It's interesting you mentioned you just realized you grew up with financial trauma. It sounds like you've gone through a huge amount of it.

And I didn't know there was a word for it.

Yeah.

So, that word, I was like, "Oh, that's what this is." Yeah.

And have you seen an individual therapist?

Yes.

Okay. And the couples therapist that you saw, that lasted for a while, and then it stopped. Why?

She's actually my personal therapist.

Okay.

So, we did couple sessions together.

Uh-huh.

And it was helpful. I think it was mainly around just parenting. That's what our primary focus was in therapy. We never really got into all of this.

Got it. And this is similar to your profession as well, right?

A therapist.

You're a therapist as well.

I am.

Yes. Crazy.

What do you make of that?

I feel like such a hypocrite.

Because?

Because I don't practice what I preach all the time.

Sometimes I don't either. I didn't talk to my wife till too late about money. That was my bad. I dropped the ball on meetings while I was writing my book on Money for Couples. I've done many things that were hypocritical or contradictory to my own teachings. That's human. It's not great, but it's human.

So, what's the end of the sentence for you? Feel like a hypocrite, so?

So, I feel like I just let that be my story sometimes.

Can I tell you what mine was? I feel like a hypocrite. So, I'm going to fix it.

Yeah.

And that's what I did.

Yeah.

When she pointed it out to me, "Hey, you've dropped the ball in these meetings and you would never do that at work. So, why is it okay that you do that for Army?" I was like, "Oh."

Mhm.

Explosion here and here.

Mhm.

And I was like, "I'll fix this. Give me a week. I need to find out why I haven't been doing this," and then I fixed it. What's the difference?

I don't take that initiative.

Yeah. You're letting this stuff destroy you and you're just sitting there.

Yeah.

Y'all can actually make a lot of mistakes in life.

Mhm.

You will. But the key is you got to fix them. You got to acknowledge them and fix them. And right now, it's like you make a mistake or something happens that's not working and then you just go, "Ah, I suck." It's not the way forward. So, what if you were to be like, "Oh, I'm a hypocrite and so I'm going to fix it." What would you do?

I'd set the standard.

What does that mean? Does it feel a little heavy?

Yeah, it does. I'm going back years now. I don't know.

Just from watching your body language right now, even your facial expressions. It feels like you're in the process of just beating yourself up for 15 years of stuff. Am I reading that right?

Mhm. Yeah.

What if we just didn't do that? What if we just did it a totally different way? What if step one of three was give myself some grace?

I hear that phrase all the time.

You do? Where do you hear it?

In therapy.

Okay. It's good. Must have a very good therapist.

My God, is he crying?

Take all the time you need.

Because I don't get grace, so I don't even know how to give it sometimes. I just don't get it.

Mhm.

I don't get it from my mom. I don't get it from family.

Mhm.

I have so many high expectations that I can't meet.

Mhm.

So I don't even know how to set them. This is such hard stuff—

Yeah.

—to unlearn.

Yes.

But I don't know where to start. I really don't know where to start. And I've tried starting. That's the thing. I feel like I always get this big motivation to be like, I want to do things different. I'm going to be the one to break generational curses. And then I feel cursed. And then I'm right back to feeling all woe is me and pitiful. And I don't want to be that. And I have a kid, so I really don't want to be that. And I don't want him to be that, either.

You took one step. Look where you are. You had to get on a plane.

Yeah.

Get in front of these cameras. We have had a very challenging conversation today. Right?

Yeah.

I sent you outside to talk. I didn't know if you were going to come back. So let me just say, you have taken several steps.

And I know how difficult it can be. Put yourself in the therapy chair. And I have a family or others that are not only not supportive, but they bring me back down every time I try to do something. In fact, when I try to do something, they go, "Who—you? You're trying to be too big for your britches."

Mhm.

And so what do I have to do? Because every time I try to take one step forward, they pull me two steps back. What do I do?

Surround yourself with people who you want to emulate or become.

Mhm.

Here we are.

Yeah.

And what do I do when they try to bring me two steps back? It's quite interesting.

Right.

Edwens just theatrically covered his ears with his hands. Two things I take away from that. One, maybe go low contact with some of these folks.

Yeah.

Right? And second, Edwens has some good instincts there. Maybe actually turn to him as a partner.

Yeah.

Hey, I'm really struggling with this. My mom said this or my sibling said that. And before I answer, what do you think I should do? Enlist his help—

Mhm.

—for the areas that he is great at. And Edwens, you do the same for money. You two go from this parallel to this. Partners.

Mhm.

Would it work?

I think so.

Yeah. Can I make a suggestion?

Yeah.

If I'm a couple and we're making 150, 160, 170K for the first time in our lives, I'm giving myself some advantages so that we are connected. Because if we are connected, then our baby is going to be happy. If we are connected, our finances are going to thrive and our health is going to thrive and we are going to thrive and our extended families are going to thrive.

Mhm.

So, you all are not really feeding this relationship. Actually, you're doing the opposite. You're starving it. It's just fight, fight, fight.

Mhm.

So, you know what successful people do? They don't wait till there's a problem. What if we do the same for therapy, though? Instead of waiting until there's a fight, we actually have a regular standing meeting.

Yeah.

What I can tell is that it would be so helpful for the two of you to have models of healthy relationships. Would you agree?

Yes.

Yep.

If your only models are, for example, parents fighting for decades, then it's actually no surprise that you are in the same situation.

Mhm.

In a way, you've got to, both of you, acknowledge, hey, I love you so much and I understand why we haven't been able to connect. If we think about it, both of us are bringing generations of disconnection. And we are in a different position. We make more money than we ever thought we would. We're here in the same place finally, not long distance. Don't we owe it to ourselves to strengthen this relationship?

If you do that, then you start to see things in a different light. Therapy, regular financial meetings, all of those things. Now, when it comes to the numbers, can I just point a couple things out?

Yeah. Yeah.

The house thing, put that on hold. Yeah. Right now, there is no way you can find a house for the same price or even close to it. No way. If you were to get a house, depending on where you live, it would be at least double, probably triple what you're paying now. Would you agree?

Absolutely.

Okay. There's no money for that right now. So, you might as well just accept it. You're not wasting money on rent. By closing the door on that, at least temporarily, you open the door on lots of other stuff.

How much do we put away? How much are we saving? Right now you have less than a month of savings. That's not a lot. You realize your fixed costs are 7,000 bucks? And your savings are 5,000 bucks? Need to get that number up. And you actually can. You could do it.

So, if it's me, I'm sitting down. I'm going through Money for Couples together, each of you reading a chapter. I'm coming up with specific milestones. First, I want to have six months of an emergency fund. That's going to take a while.

Yep.

I want to make sure we are a household that has no credit card debt. We can use the credit card, but we always pay it off in full every month.

Mhm.

Right? Start to set up some milestones. And once we hit this, this, this, then we can talk about a house down the road, but for now, we're going to have therapy. We're going to save towards six months of an emergency fund and we're going to start investing more aggressively. Could you do it?

Yeah.

Okay. What questions are coming up for you right now?

I think the first thing that comes to mind is how can I save more when I feel like I'm saving as much as I can right now?

Let's take a look at the numbers. If we go to your fixed costs, we are at 77%. You're right, it's too high.

Mhm.

We need to bring that number below 60%.

Okay.

So, how do we do it? Well, your rent is solid.

Before you bring it down, we're trying to move to a bigger place.

Mhm.

But all we've been looking at, it's like 3,000 and 2,500 and stuff.

Okay.

Do you think from what you've seen, our budget can really afford that?

Let's look.

Yeah.

So, you said right now it's 1,875 and you're saying the places are 3,000.

Yeah, the place that we're looking up is like 3,000, but we're trying to at least do 2,500.

Which number? Pick it.

25. 25.

2,500. Okay, watch. So, if it's 2,500, watch what happens to this number right here, the 77%. 84%.

Jesus.

So, what does that tell you?

We can't.

You can't afford it.

No, we can't.

Simple. I actually think you should take joy in that. Joy that at least you know. Isn't it better to know than to go and do it and then every month you're like, "Where's all our money?" That's how most Americans make their biggest decisions. It's crazy to me.

Yep.

Like I said, if I were you and I had this place, I would stay for as long as I could. Because every month you are here, you are saving a huge amount of money. Huge. Y'all should look at your apartment, that place you're in, not as a curse, but as a gift. You're being given like

Over a thousand dollars a month. And I know it's small, but I would stay there for as long as I could. Okay?

Yep.

Great question.

It's a hard pill to swallow.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Let's keep going. What can you do in the fixed cost to reduce it? Tell me.

Definitely our personal spending.

400 a month. What do you want to change that to?

Let's bring it to 200.

200? Okay, let's bring it lower than that.

Yeah, let's do 100. 100.

Can you do it?

Yeah, yeah. I committed to that.

All right, let's take a look at the number. 74%. Good. Good, in the right direction. Keep going.

I could shop around for a cheaper insurance.

Even if you were to save a hundred dollars a month, that's actually quite meaningful.

Okay.

I think you should look. I'm not going to change anything here, but you should do it. What else? What's this miscellaneous number? $960 a month on miscellaneous? We can bring that number down.

Mhm.

It just means that you all have to be very meticulous about your spending.

Yes, we can.

Can you agree with that?

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, let's bring it down. In my opinion, 960 is way too high. If it's me, I'd give you 200 bucks.

200 bucks.

200 bucks takes you down to 66%. It's in better shape for sure.

Okay. Wow.

But that means that you all have 200 bucks and that's the max.

Yeah.

Of something that can come up. So, if I'm you, anytime there's an extra, I don't spend the 200 bucks, I'm putting it into a savings account.

Okay.

Because one day when your tires go flat, where's it coming from? That's where it's coming from.

Yeah. Okay.

All right, the rest of it I think is good. Oh, the clothes are still at 150. I don't know. I think that's got to come down. I'll keep you 50 each. Enjoy those shoes. It didn't even move the number. We're going to do it anyway because sometimes Ramit Sethi is punitive.

The baby, 1677, any opportunities there?

I would keep the baby same.

All right, so no changes here. Fine. I do want to point out a couple things down here. We got $200 a month going to the 529.

Not enough?

No, it's way too much right now. You all need to be focusing on yourselves. You don't have enough for retirement.

Not enough.

No, you don't have enough for retirement.

Oh, right.

Your baby is 10 months old.

Yeah.

Your baby has time. You have less time.

Yeah.

So that $200 needs to be going for you, not for baby.

Mhm.

Zero. Goodbye. Okay? Yeah. Cool. So we're doing 400. I like that. 400 for your investments. Savings are at 12%. That's good. Gifts, vacations. I don't think there are any vacations coming up for a while.

We planning for next year.

Oh, you are? Where are you going?

We want to introduce the baby to the family.

Okay, all right. I'm not going to argue with that.

I want to make a couple of observations. So one, I think that clothes need to go into guilt-free spending. They're not fixed costs. You buying some random pair of shoes, that's guilt-free spending.

Mhm.

Actually, I'm going to take this to zero. Okay? And that money will flow down here. That comes out of here. That also includes things like eating out and things like family travel, which you can save for it here. I see that the money going back to DR, that's your individual money that you are choosing to send.

Yeah.

Totally respect that. If you have an equivalent or something that you want to do like travel, okay, fine. As long as it fits the numbers, great.

Mhm.

If it doesn't fit, then you all need to cut back on something else.

Mhm. Okay.

It's just math. It's like a puzzle, make it work. Right now, based on the changes that we have made, you have almost $2,000 a month to distribute. Did you know that?

I did not.

Let me show you how that happened, just so you can follow the math. So, we cut a bunch of money from fixed costs. Okay? We cut the miscellaneous, we cut the clothes.

The baby.

We did cut 200 bucks off the baby. So, all of that flowed down to the bottom, which is 19% guilt-free spending. Now, for most couples, I recommend 20 to 35%. In your case, you don't have enough savings. You don't have enough for retirement. So, do you think that number should be higher or lower?

Lower.

Lower. I agree. You should spend less on fun stuff. You can spend a little bit. We should spend less, and you should redirect it towards what?

Saving and retirement.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Crystal clear. Where do you all think we should put this?

The sending money to DR.

Yeah.

Is that a bill? I feel like that's a fixed cost.

Fixed cost.

Yeah.

So, we'll call that 400. All right, watch what happens. 400 means you're now at 69%.

Jeez.

It's okay. It's not great, but it's okay. But that just means you're going to spend less on guilt-free spending. Okay? You all have 1,800 bucks to spend. We need to increase the savings. How much you want to add to that?

We can make it a full thousand.

Good. Watch what happens. Your savings is now 12%. You still have $1,493. I like this. I like the direction we're going. There's actual math on this. You can open up a compound interest calculator and calculate how much you will need for retirement. Let's simulate it right now.

Mhm.

Let's say we add an extra 500 bucks a month. We're at 9%. Not bad. You still have $993 a month. Look, if it's me and I'm young with a baby, and I'm trying to get ahead, because what's your ages again?

29.

31.

Oh, you guys have an amazing opportunity. Even 200 bucks a month actually makes a huge difference right now. So, if it's me, I'm taking this number down to freaking 600 here. I'll add an extra 100 to savings and an extra 100 to investments. Whoa. You're down to 793. That's not bad. That's not bad.

You all have to be very thoughtful and planful about what you're spending, guilt-free spending. You probably can't go on any more big vacations for a while. Okay? But you will not believe, after 3 months, you're going to look in your accounts, you're going to be like, is this for real? You will not believe it. In 3 months, you will have an extra almost $4,000 in your savings account.

3 months.

That's crazy. And then in your investments, you'll have an extra $3,000.

Wow.

That's amazing. That's just 3 months. Imagine 12 months. It becomes unstoppable. Again, you all, you don't have to go this aggressive.

Mhm.

You're young. You could dial it back a little bit if you want. If you go and you try this and you're like, "This is way too impossible for us," and you talk about it. The bad way would be, "I give up." Back to the old ways. The good way would be, "Hey, I'm finding this really hard. I know that we agreed for me to eat out once a week or for me not to take a vacation, but I don't feel this is sustainable. I would like to discuss with you a way for us to loosen the strings just a little bit. It may take us a little bit longer, but it's going to make it more sustainable for both of us. Would you be open to that discussion?"

This is going to be a tough pill to swallow. I have friends who live all over the country.

You have plenty of time and I am not saying you all have to live like hermits for the rest of your life. What I'm saying is that the way that you came into this conversation, do you remember what your number one goal was?

Clarity.

Yeah, and what was your thing that you wanted to do with your money?

Oh, to buy a house.

Buy a house. Yeah, buy a house.

Yeah, right.

And we discovered in 5 seconds that's not even feasible. I'm not saying that's forever, but what I'm saying is let's actually focus on realistically what's possible and let's win. You all came in here and you were trying to set yourself up to fail. If you had bought a house, you would fail.

Mhm.

You can't do it right now. What I'm doing is showing you how to create an actual plan where you will succeed. That is amazing. That is how you change this generation of messages that you learned. You have a plan. Your parents did not have a plan. I guarantee that. This changes things. Then the two of you need to connect. Therapy, regular meetings, reading the book together.

Yeah.

Both of you being involved, not one, both. And then you follow the plan. And when it goes wrong, and it will go wrong at some point, you go, "Hey, let's talk about this. Doesn't mean you're a bad person. I love you. Let's figure out where we went off track. Let's get back on track." Can you all do that?

Yes.

I believe you can. I believe that. What surprised you about today's conversation?

I just got surprised about the numbers. Yeah.

What part of it?

When you say in 3 months how much we can make, we can really save. It's like when you really think for the whole year, we going to make it. I think we can make it.

Good.

Yeah.

I really thought having a baby I had so much I needed to do now and early and the future. But I'm like, you're right. He's 10 months old. I have a lifetime ahead of me. So sometimes I feel like I run myself in this anxious circle of needing to catch up and whatnot. And then I set myself back.

Yeah.

Both great realizations. Calm, cool, and collected.

Mhm.

That's how I am with money. It's how I want everyone to be. I can admire things. There may be certain things I see that I want to do. Maybe I can't afford it right now. Calm, cool, and collected. I have a little document in my phone. I jot it down. I create a little milestone. When we get to this, I'm going to go and look at my list and see what do I get to do. What do I get to do? But there is joy in creating a list of things you want to see and in maintaining your discipline so that when you get there, it is even sweeter.

Yeah.

When you walked in here today, how were you feeling compared to how you feel now?

I feel lighter.

I feel ready, friend, because I feel like I just took a rock out of my back. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's how I feel, man.

What about the two of you? How do you feel about the two of you as a unit?

I feel like this, you made a lot of point, going to connect us way, way better.

Yeah.

Especially the therapy, doing things together, sitting down and see what we do, what we spend, and everything. I think that's going to create a lot of good habit between us and then things going to be better for us. Yeah, when it comes to that.

I think I'm realizing how much I am reinforcing negative habits from him. So, I think I'm as much to blame in just the cycles that we were in, even though I try to point the finger at him because he's not involved. He doesn't do blah blah blah. I think that because I'm always there to pick up where he leaves off, I blame myself for that. So, I'm looking in the mirror now and realizing that I need to change.

Great realizations, both. Very powerful. Edwens, will you combine accounts?

Yeah, yeah. Definitely, yeah. My perspective now from before and now, it's a lot. It's way different.

The two of you as a unit, if you are stronger, your son feels that, your son sees that and it actually becomes stronger over time. So, it's like you right now, when you walked in, it was like two magnets repelling each other. It's like if I try to push them together they actually would fight. And I think what I'm starting to see are signs that you two have flipped and that when I even bring you two close together—

Yeah.

You get together and guess what? You keep those magnets together for a long time—

Mhm.

And you start to fuse together. And then you got your little baby magnet, little 10-month-old comes along. Baby sticks like this. That's a beautiful family.

Yo.

It kind of explains a lot, the fact that both of them grew up with parents who fought. Imagine being in a household where your parents fight once a week, twice a week, every day and you grow up for years seeing that. You would think it's normal. You wouldn't actually know that there is any other way to be. And I think that's a little bit of what we are seeing today. There's not only an untraining of what they learned, but there's a retraining of what a healthy relationship looks like.

I'm actually really honored that they reached out and asked for help. I think they need to be around other people than they are normally around. Other people who say, "Hey, it's actually not normal to be completely separate in your marriage with a 10-month-old. Hey, it's actually cool if the two of you talk about how you feel and you can admit I'm nervous or I made a mistake." They need to see that there's a different way to be because once they see it then they can start to adapt it and adopt it for their own relationship.

If you find yourself talking past your partner, like the two of you are just not connecting about money, and you even find yourself jabbing each other, "Well, you did this and you did that," then it might be time to make a change, and if so, you should join my money coaching program. Every month, I have a live event. The two of you can come together. There are tons of other people in that program in situations just like you and a little bit ahead, and you can have an opportunity to make money an important part of your relationship. I'll show you exactly what to do with your money. I will show you how to talk to each other about money. I will even show you how to spend your money meaningfully so the two of you can get on the same page. Join my money coaching program at iwt.com/moneycoaching.

Let's check out their follow-ups.

Hello guys. Hello Ramit. I'll say thank you one more time for the opportunity. And then I'll say right away, my biggest surprise was to see my wife emotional. Ramit, that means something was going on with her, and then to me that was amazing. And then I'll say my takeaways about the credit card. Now I have a better idea. I have enough information from you about how to use my credit card properly.

And then I'll say action, me and my wife, we about to open our joint account. We about to get our couple therapy. We getting ready to invest better, to save better. Now we feel like every little things that we buy, we have to take note, and then to make things better. But we also don't want to be cheap, but here we go. We trying, and then we are ready to prove ourselves that we can make it. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Keep changing life.

I have really been surprised by just how much I have to take responsibility for our dynamic with money. I think Ramit really opened my eyes to the fact that I have been playing mom with my husband Edwens and I don't think that's been helpful to us at all. I have a lot to unpack with that. And I also think that we both need to really work through that stuff in couples therapy, which is another thing that I'm taking away from that conversation with Ramit.

Overall, I think Ramit really helped us to understand with the numbers, we have a lot more we need to be saving than we are spending. I can't be traveling like I usually do, which I'm crying about internally. But I think the sacrifices that we're making now for our future in order to have a rich life, I think are going to be worth it. My hope is also to be clear and specific with him about what my non-negotiables are in the relationship and really set a standard that Ramit really pushed to me, so I'm going to work on that. And I'll check back in and see how things are going from there. But thank you.

It's been about, I want to say, a month and a half since we last met to go over our money coaching and a lot has changed. I want to start off by saying our relationship has been through a lot of ups and downs, I think, since that conversation. We were really able to sit with each other and talk about, one, the challenges that we faced with money growing up, how we want money to be in our relationship, and then how we really hope to parent with our son in the future with money as well. We also started doing money meetings every Tuesday.

We going through also with our therapy, we met with our

Therapy and then it's going good so far.

We also have started a joint savings and joint checking.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We've also been able to really combine our finances in some areas. I think we still both want to have some sense of independence and like I do my thing, you do your thing, but for the most part our family—

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the main thing is we already seen changes in our savings. So, the changes, it's going good. We don't want to say numbers, but we are impressed with that. Yeah.

He's very happy to know we have about five grand in our savings.

Oh my God. Yeah, in one month and a half it's like—

Yeah, in just a short amount of time we've already seen how combining our finances, which I've been saying forever. I'm glad Ramit was able to say that to him, that we really were able to reach our goals a lot faster when we combine. So, that's been the biggest thing we really seen improvements on.

Again, we're doing couples therapy. I want to say that we've been really able to have better communication about not just money, but just our goals and our hopes for relationship and our future together.

We are not going to be doing any big traveling, as Ramit warned us that we probably should just stick to getting our emergency savings up. That's going to be our priority.

But yeah, I think we're really hopeful and excited about what the future holds for us. We're going to really take that Ramit shared in that conversation as well as what we're learning in the book together. And we'll see what the world takes us in the future. So, thank you again for all your help. And we'll keep working on ourselves. Thanks.

Thank you.

Listen up. If you want my help with your specific money questions, there are only two ways to get it. First, you can apply to be on this podcast at iwt.com/apply. Or second, you can join my money coaching program instantly at iwt.com/moneycoaching.

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Article published September 29, 2026