How Cleveland Turns National Manufacturing Programs Into Local Results
Manufacturing Happy HourManufacturing Happy Hour, hosted by Chris Luecke, usually records one-on-one interviews over drinks. This episode was a live show at Collision Bend Brewing in Cleveland, the first stop on the show's "Rust Belt Renaissance" tour. Luecke framed it around one question he and friends in Cleveland had asked while brainstorming: what can other places learn from this region? Their answer was that manufacturing strength and national impact start at the regional and local level. The episode is aimed at manufacturers trying to figure out how to use the many resources and programs available to them.
The show ran as three short panels. The first covered the organizations that make up Northeast Ohio's manufacturing ecosystem. The second was a case study of one manufacturer, Novagard, that used those resources. The third brought in two people from CESMII, the Smart Manufacturing Institute, for takeaways. Luecke asked listeners not to get lost in the names of organizations. The broader point, he said, was how much support exists and how it gets put to work locally.
Manufacturing Works as the "tissue" of the ecosystem
Adam Artman, executive director of Manufacturing Works for about two years, gave two descriptions of the organization. The standard one is that it is a membership-based organization that works with manufacturers and professional service firms and connects them to a network of providers. His less formal description was that Manufacturing Works is "the tissue that binds the manufacturing ecosystem together in Northeast Ohio."
In Artman's view, an ecosystem has many kinds of stakeholders: manufacturers, professional services, universities, workforce providers, and workers themselves. Something has to connect them, and Manufacturing Works sees itself as that infrastructure. Luecke summarized its role as the place where programs actually get implemented at the local level, and the panel agreed.
Cleveland State's Advanced Manufacturing Center and the four-year end of the pipeline
Matt Duppenthaler manages the TransDigm Advanced Manufacturing Center (AMC) at Cleveland State University. He described CSU as a local public research university whose engineering college has a 100-year history. His argument was that talk about the manufacturing talent pipeline usually focuses on skilled trades and vocational training. Four-year engineering education is a different part of the pipeline, but he considers it an essential one.
As a public university, Duppenthaler said, CSU should serve the public and the region's manufacturers. The AMC gives students hands-on, experiential learning that complements their undergraduate coursework and co-op rotations. It is also meant to be a gateway for collaboration with industry. He described the university's "product" as its students, and called the AMC's place "the back end of the pipeline."
He later stressed another point about CSU. Its students are largely local, proud Clevelanders who come from the surrounding region and tend to stay there. Luecke tried to recall a figure of around 80%, and Duppenthaler confirmed it referred to local students. His conclusion was that a school whose graduates want to stay is an ideal place for regional employers to look for engineering talent.
NSF Engine: federal funding tied to regional strengths
Kyle Zeller described the NSF Engine as a federal program from the CHIPS and Science Act. It carries a $160 million award to be paid out over 10 years, with a focus on "place-based innovation ecosystems." The program brings private industry, academia, and workforce development together around a specific regional research agenda.
Zeller tied Northeast Ohio's agenda to its industrial history. The region's strengths, he said, are metals, chemicals and coatings, and polymers. Metals trace back to the steel mills. Chemicals and coatings trace back to John D. Rockefeller and the start of the oil industry. Polymers reflect the work being done in Akron. The goal is to pull these activities together in a coherent way to grow the regional economy.
Luecke noted that the region is currently one of 15 teams being evaluated for this funding, and asked what that says about the area. Zeller said it reflects the level of collaboration. Something like this "doesn't just get spun up overnight," he said. It comes from years of work among Manufacturing Works, Cleveland State, other universities, and the private sector. He added that it signals federal confidence in the region's ability to compete globally.
ManuFuture and the case for peer-to-peer problem-solving
Artman described what he called Manufacturing Works' "theory of change": manufacturing as a community has the brainpower to solve its own problems, and the job is to build infrastructure that helps it define and solve them. When he visits plants, he said, he often finds manufacturers trying to solve problems alone, with a team confined to their own four walls. Meanwhile, the brainpower outside those walls working on similar problems is, in his words, incredible.
That led to ManuFuture, which Manufacturing Works developed with several partners, including Purdue University. It brings manufacturers and subject matter experts together to tackle the "wicked, complex" problems that every manufacturer faces, drawing on each other's experience.
Artman gave technology adoption as an example. He finds that manufacturers feel pressure and even fear about investing in technology, and that urging from outsiders doesn't move them. What does move them is hearing from another manufacturer who made an investment and can tell them directly what return they are seeing. ManuFuture's work streams are designed to create that kind of exchange.
Duppenthaler explained CSU's role. Working groups meet on specific topics, at times weekly. Every six months, a larger group meets in person at the Advanced Manufacturing Center. He said he wished it happened more often, because that is where ideas start flowing. Artman added that CSU plays a key role in moving companies from awareness toward adoption of technology in a way that feels comfortable to them.
The "secret ingredients"
Luecke recapped the ingredients so far: practical manufacturing education, an institution that keeps talent local, peer-to-peer networking, and a formal organization to support it. He then asked each panelist for one secret ingredient.
- Zeller returned to collaboration. He said he did not think the region would have reached this point without everyone rallying around an initiative like the NSF Engine. Asked why other regions struggle to do the same, he said a strong foundation helps, and that it gives the federal government confidence its taxpayer dollars will be well spent here.
- Artman joked that Zeller had taken his answer, then approached it differently. What sets Northeast Ohio apart, he said, is a willingness to share and a belief that the whole can be greater than the sum of its parts. He cited about 7,700 manufacturers in the region and asked what that density could achieve with assets like CSU and Lorain County Community College. Other areas may have assets and manufacturers too, he argued, but they are fragmented. He summed up his answer as density plus collaboration.
- Duppenthaler named history and location. From the brewery, the panel could see the river where cargo ships travel to a nearby steel mill, infrastructure built more than a century ago. That history, he said, is how the region got to 7,700 manufacturers, and it underpins local pride.
Duppenthaler also said the region's population is rising, and Luecke asked what besides manufacturing is driving that. Duppenthaler is from Northeast Ohio but spent five years in Chicago before moving back. He said he sees many things that made Chicago renowned now appearing in Cleveland on a smaller scale, which he considers sometimes a good thing. He listed restaurants, Playhouse Square, three professional sports teams, universities on the east side, and nearby community colleges. Luecke shared his own first visit to Slyman's for a corned beef sandwich with stadium mustard, and closed the segment there.
Novagard: from rushed technology purchases to a roadmap
The second panel paired Greg Schumacher, director of manufacturing at Novagard Solutions, with Mike Yost of Manufacturing Works. Schumacher described Novagard as a maker of silicone adhesives and sealants, PVC foam, and silicone greases.
Yost said he works mainly with manufacturers and solution providers to help them find value in each other. He does this through a Manufacturing Works program called Manufacturing Excellence. His target audience, he said, is whoever in a business "has to run the plant better to run the business better." He also works with ManuFuture, the NSF Engine, and a smart manufacturing cluster, always with the goal of helping manufacturers understand the role, value, and fit of modern technology.
Schumacher said technology adoption at Novagard originally meant "here's a new technology, get it, do it now." That doesn't work, he said, if the team isn't ready. He had been tasked with digitizing the plant, but some changes felt rushed and forced. Several technologies were adopted without a clear understanding of what the company was doing, and the value never materialized. In his words, the result was "ROI in the toilet." The Smart Manufacturing Roadmap process helped the company step back and ask what had to come first.
What the Smart Manufacturing Roadmap is
Yost explained the roadmap in plain terms. Everyone, he said, is learning how to be digital, and people need a shared language to work out what technology means for them. He described CESMII as the national authority on smart manufacturing. Manufacturing Works adopted CESMII's approach, language, and tools and is building a community of practice among local manufacturers. Novagard is one example. More than a dozen companies are actively going through the process, and dozens more in ManuFuture and other programs may take it on if it makes sense for them.
Yost emphasized that Novagard was already forward-looking and fast-moving with strong leadership. It was not waiting for someone to rescue it. He said he often meets people who have been told to figure out what Industry 4.0, digital transformation, or smart manufacturing means for their company, and who wonder how to do that alone. His view is that it is not a one-person job. The roadmap process involves the whole organization, top to bottom and across functions, and gives people a structure for the right conversations.
Yost also pushed back on treating smart manufacturing as a destination. He called it a tool for leaders to lead, and said he found it hard to take credit when the company is the one owning and driving the work. He connected this back to the ecosystem theme. Once a company knows where it stands and where it is heading, it is much easier to bring in partners. Its talent needs, technology needs, and implementation and architecture gaps become clear, and supporting organizations can bring in the right resources.
"People first, process strong, technology enabled"
Asked how daily operations changed, Schumacher said life used to be "go go go," with 20 priorities that were apparently all equally important. The biggest lesson from the roadmap, he said, was a phrase the company adopted: "people first, process strong, technology enabled." You can buy technology, he argued, but if your people aren't ready and your processes aren't in place, you won't get full value from it.
Novagard therefore started with people. It invested in training and began recruiting from a CSU program. It also connected with ManuFuture and worked with MAGNET, another local organization Schumacher called very helpful, to build its processes. The goal was that when technology arrived, the company would be ready, implement it correctly, and see value. Things now run much more smoothly, he said.
Luecke asked whether this meant less stress, clearer priorities, and less guesswork on the floor. Schumacher agreed and pointed to connected workers. He said the CESMII process also leads a company to create its own internal language, including memorable taglines. Besides "people first," the team working on data-driven processes called its effort "data unleashed." With help from outside partners, Novagard connected its PLCs so that real-time data reaches engineering and operations. "We have unleashed the data," he said. "We are making decisions faster, smarter, with the right information."
Yost joked that before the roadmap, Schumacher never got invited to events like this. Now they bring him on stage whenever they can as an example.
Six weeks instead of twelve, at zero cost
Luecke noted that Novagard finished the roadmap unusually fast and at a reasonable cost. Schumacher credited the company's owner, Sarah Nash, whose "superpower is creating pressure," he said. She wants everything done in half the time people expect, and she gets it. Their roadmap consultant said these projects usually take about 12 weeks, and most companies take a couple of months. Nash insisted on six weeks because, as Schumacher recalled, the company couldn't afford not to. Hitting that deadline required organizing a leadership team of directors and VPs, since the work could not rest on one person.
On cost, Schumacher gave a precise figure: exactly $0. Yost had connected Novagard with Tri-C, which had a grant that fully funded the program for a limited number of manufacturers. Schumacher said he didn't know how much longer the grant would last.
How the model spreads: a standard toolset and peer pressure
Luecke asked how to produce more stories like Novagard's across the country. Yost made two points. First, the roadmap is a standardized toolset taught nationwide, with about 100 certified roadmap professionals across the country. It is designed to be low-cost and low-touch. He described it as an education project rather than a consulting project, because it teaches manufacturers to use the tools themselves. That means manufacturers outside Northeast Ohio can get the same approach wherever they are. He also offered to talk with other regions that want to build community around their manufacturers.
Second, he told a story about peer influence. One company now about halfway through its roadmap had said it wanted to do one but kept getting pulled away by other priorities. Then its CFO joined a plant tour at a company that had already finished a roadmap and had it posted on the wall. The host company pointed to it at the start of the tour. The CFO said he needed to do that, and the host team chided him on the spot, asking what he was waiting for. Yost said that peer moment was worth more than anything he, the host, or CESMII could have said. That, he explained, is why they keep putting practitioners like Schumacher on stage: they are the people manufacturers want to hear from. Luecke named vehicles for peer-to-peer problem-solving as one of his main takeaways for listeners outside the region.
CESMII's national view and other active regions
The final panel featured two people from CESMII. Jillian, CESMII's director of marketing, said she feels lucky to live in such a well-organized region, which makes it easier to talk about. Nationally, she said, CESMII is building tools, workflows, and processes to help other places replicate this model and connect the right people with the right manufacturers.
Asked which other regions to highlight, Jillian named four:
- the Digital Foundry in New Kensington, a Penn State branch and one of CESMII's innovation centers, led by Sherry McCleary, which has completed several roadmaps;
- RPI (Rensselaer Polytechnic), which trains the certified roadmap professionals and has a strong network;
- the Los Angeles area, where CESMII is starting to grow;
- the Maryland MEP, which she called "a little unassuming" but very involved in getting roadmaps started.
Luecke linked RPI to Rochester, New York, the tour's next stop.
Three technology imperatives: model, contextualize, interoperate
Jonathan Wise, CESMII's chief technology architect, first agreed with Schumacher: technology is a means to an end, and buying it won't solve problems unless you know which problems you are trying to solve. Drawing on the roughly 50 projects CESMII has funded and his work with manufacturers nationwide, he laid out three technology imperatives.
The first starts from his blunt view that manufacturing data is generally a mess, "garbage." The imperative is to model your data: learn the discipline of data modeling and move existing data sources toward models built around the business problem you are solving.
The second, which he said sounds similar but is different, is to contextualize your data. Standards for what data looks like are a good start. You also need to know where data comes from, what it means as it moves, and what it relates to.
The third is to make your data accessible through interoperability. Wise said no single technology will solve every problem, so manufacturers will end up with a "heterogeneous architecture" made of different pieces that must work together. Interoperability is a deep passion for CESMII, he said, and the first thing it asks vendors about. For the past 18 months, CESMII has been developing I3X, which he described as a common programming interface for these contextualized information sources. Starting at the end of April, CESMII is also offering an information modeling course to help the community work through the first two imperatives.
Luecke recapped the three points and agreed they deserved a separate episode. He noted that about a quarter of the show's audience are engineers or engineering managers, which is why he includes technical material.
A closing toast to the region
Luecke ended by asking each guest to name something they love about Northeast Ohio, framing the show as a celebration of the region as much as its manufacturing. Jillian recommended the restaurants of the Hangry group, especially Jolene's on East 4th, a country music bar with live music on weekends that she said feels like Nashville. Wise praised Collision Bend's beer and the local craft brewing scene. He also recommended 11 3 Brewing in Geauga County, opened by a former CESMII colleague, Dave, who spent years solving smart manufacturing problems before starting his own brewery.
Across the three panels, the main lesson was consistent. National programs and standardized tools matter. What made them work in Cleveland, according to the speakers, was local infrastructure: an organization connecting stakeholders, a university keeping talent in the region, and regular chances for manufacturers to learn from peers who have already done the work.
When we think about what we are good at here in Northeast Ohio, things like metals, chemicals and coatings, and polymers. When you think back to the legacy of our area with the steel mills, John D. Rockefeller
So often what I hear when I go out to a manufacturer in their plant is they're trying to solve these challenges alone. The amount of brainpower that exists outside of that that's dealing with similar challenges, it's incredible.
We have unleashed the data. We are making decisions faster, smarter with the right information.
Today's episode, Manufacturing Happy Hour is traveling to Cleveland, Ohio. A live show from Collision Bend Brewing. This was the first stop on our recent Rust Belt Renaissance tour, and this mega episode is all about taking regional action in manufacturing, and Cleveland happens to be the example that we're looking at today.
Now, the whole concept for this episode began when I was brainstorming with some of my friends in Cleveland, and we were like, what can folks learn from this region? The answer quickly became how manufacturing strength and national impact starts at the regional and local level. So, if you're a manufacturer that's trying to figure out how to take advantage of all these resources and programs that are out there, this episode is for you.
It's essentially a three-part episode with three short panels, so here's what you can expect. First, we talk about regional action, and yes, there are a lot of names and organizations that get mentioned here, but try not to get lost in the names. The bigger point is around all the resources that exist. We have Matt Duplin of Cleveland State University's Advanced Manufacturing Center. We've got Kyle Zeller of NSF Engine, part of the National Science Foundation. And we have Adam Artman, executive director at Manufacturing Works.
Now, we'll talk about roadmaps that allow for execution as well. More importantly, we're going to learn how Greg Schumacher has applied some of these resources at his company, Novagards. This is like the case study portion of our conversation. Mike Yost of Manufacturing Works is also part of this phase of the conversation. And I should also mention that these are CESMII roadmaps that we're specifically talking about. That's why Jillian Kuchchella and Jonathan Wise of CESMII jump in to wrap up our conversation with some takeaways and a nice little shout out to Cleveland at the end.
This is a big episode. It was a lot of fun. I hope the energy comes across when you're listening to this. Since it's very resource heavy, definitely check out the show notes page over at manufacturinghappyhour.com.
Now that we have set the stage, let's head to the actual stage at Collision Bend Brewing in Cleveland, Ohio.
All right, folks. Find those seats. Wrap those conversations. We are getting ready for Manufacturing Happy Hour live in Cleveland. So.
All right. Yes. Yes, this has been a long time coming. This is the number one market that has been asking for a party, a Manufacturing Happy Hour party. So, I'm really happy to finally follow through on that. And you guys have a great community out here. Give yourselves a hand.
And just so you know what to expect from tonight's live show. So, we're going to be talking about what I would say are like regional manufacturing communities, regional ecosystems, and how to take action at a local level by leveraging all the tools you have at your disposal. Some of those are national programs, etc. But before we get going with tonight's show, I want to welcome someone special to stage. Chris Brown, come on up.
Thank you very much.
Grab a quick seat, Chris.
I will. Thank you.
Good to have you here.
Oh, it's great to be with you.
So, Chris is from Fathom and without Fathom this tour would not be possible. So, Chris, in the spirit of Manufacturing Happy Hour, how do you describe what Fathom does if you're having a beer with someone?
Absolutely. So, Fathom is seven regional manufacturing companies, most of them being small sheet metal providers, CNC providers, a lot of certifications, a lot of knowledge inside of a lot of engineers and machinists' heads working in order to provide the aerospace industry, the medical device industry, and the robotics industry the parts that they need in order to continue to grow their businesses.
So, hey, everyone make sure you get a chance to chat with Chris before the night's over. I've worked with him for years on multiple events, multiple podcasts before. Great guy, great organization. Give it up for Chris and Fathom.
Thank you, Chris.
Thanks for coming up.
All right, without further ado, let's get started. So, we're going to... This is the fun thing about doing a live podcast is just to give you an idea if you're not familiar with Manufacturing Happy Hour, it's usually one-on-one interviews recorded in a studio at a bar over drinks, but it's not always in front of a live audience like we're doing tonight. So, one of the special things about tonight is we get to have a rotation of a lot of different people that are doing great things in the Northeast Ohio manufacturing ecosystem. So, I'd like to bring up our first guests to the stage. We got Matt, Kyle, and Adam jumping up here. So, welcome aboard.
All right, so folks, just so you have an idea of what to expect during this first part of the episode, we're really going to be talking about what regional action looks like in a manufacturing ecosystem, and we're going to be doing that in the context of a number of different, let's say, programs, organizations, educational entities that you have here in Northeast Ohio. So, rather than make this like a buzzword bingo alphabet soup type of thing, we're going to try to go through this in a way that really describes what the essence and what the point of these programs are. So, that way manufacturing leaders that listen to this outside of Northeast Ohio, right? A lot of the Manufacturing Happy Hour audience is based in other parts of the country. They're going to be learning about how they can achieve success in their manufacturing businesses, in their manufacturing ecosystems from the things that you're doing really well here.
So, Adam, the first question is going to be for you. So, please describe what Manufacturing Works is in 30 seconds. We're going to talk about Manufacturing Works a little bit later, but as I understand it, it's an organization that's critical for building trust with manufacturers at the local level. So, if you could introduce yourself, who you are and what you do, and then what the role is, and make sure you bring the mic kind of up where I'm holding it as well, just so we can hear everything you're saying. That'd be perfect.
Sounds good. Thank you. So, first of all, I want to say thanks for the opportunity to come in here and happy to share the podcast here with two gentlemen that I know pretty well. Some talent here in Northeast Ohio. So, my name is Adam Artman. I'm the executive director with Manufacturing Works. Been in the role for about 2 years. The standard answer is that Manufacturing Works is a membership-based organization. We work with manufacturers, we work with professional service organizations, and we typically connect them to a network of providers.
I'd say the non-structural answer is, I see Manufacturing Works as the tissue that binds the manufacturing ecosystem together in Northeast Ohio. So, when we talk about ecosystem, we talk about so many different types of stakeholders. We're talking about industry, we're talking about manufacturers, we're talking about professional services, but we're also talking about institutions of higher learning, we're talking about workforce providers, we're talking about workers themselves, employees. And there needs to be a structure that connects all of those stakeholders together. And Manufacturing Works serves as that infrastructure, that fabric that connects everyone together.
So, I'm going to also kind of play like generalist here as well. So, with all the different programs, all the different educational entities, for the folks listening out here or listening on the podcast afterwards, this is all about having a group that allows, I would say, implementation at the local level, right? Making sure all the programs that exist have a way of being implemented in some way, shape, or form. Is that a fair assessment?
So, now that I'm throwing my notes all over the place, let me get reoriented here. So, Matt, you're with Cleveland State. This next question is really for you because now we're going to go to the education side of things, right? So, you're with CSU's Advanced Manufacturing Center. And as if you're having a drink with someone, why is this such an important piece of a regional action plan around reinvigorating manufacturing in somewhere like Northeast Ohio?
Yeah, that's a great question and one that I answer on a daily basis. So, we'll see if I can spit it out the same way every time. So my name is Matt Duppenthaler, I'm the manager of the TransDigm Advanced Manufacturing Center at Cleveland State University. We're a local public research-oriented university with a 100-year history with our engineering college. And so where we stand in the ecosystem is that in the discussion around the talent pipeline and the needs in manufacturing, it certainly doesn't stop when you get into a four-year academic space. There needs to be that type of resource and it's very differentiated from what you see at a skilled trades vocational level.
We're a public university, right? And so we should be servicing the public and the manufacturers in our region. And so the Advanced Manufacturing Center is that space. It's developing into really a gateway for collaboration with industry and with our product as a university, which is our students. So the whole point of the AMC for short is to provide students with experiential learning experiences to complement the knowledge they're gaining in undergrad and the experience they're getting in a co-op rotation as an engineer. We're all familiar with those. And it's meant to be at its most a very collaborative space for industry. So when we talk talent pipeline all the time, it's a word that's constantly thrown around with workforce challenges. We're on that back end of the pipeline, but we're still and consider ourselves very essential and a part of that whole ecosystem.
Yeah, so a couple of the ingredients we've discussed so far, you know, Adam, you led us off with Manufacturing Works, where the rubber meets the road. We talked about Cleveland State, what you're doing to provide a pragmatic, real-world manufacturing experience to the students that are in that program. So those are a couple of the ingredients that we have here so far. Kyle, you're going to bring another piece of the puzzle to this. And similar question for you, how do you describe NSF Engine? And NSF is National Science Foundation. How do you describe that over a drink? And we're going to bring all this together a little bit more here in a moment.
Yeah, happy to. So the NSF Engine is a federal program coming out of the CHIPS and Science Act. It's a $160 million award to be awarded over 10 years focusing on place-based innovation ecosystems. Looking to bring together the private industry, academia, workforce development for a specific regional research agenda.
In terms of bringing it towards manufacturing, when we think about what we are good at here in Northeast Ohio, comes to mind things like metals, chemicals and coatings, and polymers. When you think back to the legacy of our area with the steel mills, John D. Rockefeller and the inception of the oil industry leading to the chemicals and coatings today, and then when we look at our friends down in Akron, all the work being done with polymers, bringing together all this set of activities in a cohesive way for growing our regional economy.
So, playing to your strengths, you mentioned coatings, metals, polymers. You know, one other thing that I understand you're doing right now is you're one of 15 teams being evaluated for, I think it's somewhere in the range of like 160 million. Is it federal funding that this is from right now?
Correct, yeah.
And like, what does that say about the strength of a region? Because, as I understand it, if you're one of 15 teams, not everywhere in the country is able to pursue this right now, is pursuing this right now. You've highlighted some of that just a moment ago, but what makes Cleveland and the greater Northeast Ohio area uniquely positioned to go after something like this? And what can other manufacturers across the country learn from it?
I think it speaks to the level of collaboration that's been happening here. Something like this doesn't just get spun up overnight. This is the result of years and years and years of work together with people like Manufacturing Works, Cleveland State, our friends at our universities, and the private sector. Additionally, it speaks to the confidence that our federal government has in our region to be able to compete on a global scale.
So, when you talk about collaboration, I think all the things that have been brought up so far. We talked Manufacturing Works, we talked the education institutions, we've talked about having, let's say, an industrial identity in the different verticals that you mentioned. Matt and Adam, I want to bring you both back into this conversation around an organization, I believe called ManuFuture, and the role of something like that where, as I understand it, it's about technology implementation and peer-to-peer problem-solving. So, Adam, maybe if you want to start us off on that?
Yeah. So, I think our theory of change here, if you will, is this idea that manufacturing as a community, as a network, has the brainpower to solve its own challenges, right? And one of the unique things that we want to build in that community is infrastructure to help them support the defining and the solving of those challenges, right? So often, what I hear when I go out to a manufacturer in their plant, is they're trying to solve these challenges alone. They're going solo, they've got a team, that team is within their four walls of their manufacturing plant, and the amount of brainpower that exists outside of that that's dealing with similar challenges, it's incredible. And so, we developed, in partnership with a lot of different organizations, among them Purdue University, this idea of ManuFuture, which is about peer-to-peer learning. It's about bringing manufacturers together, subject matter experts together to solve these challenges, and building on their individual experiences to help navigate some of those wicked, complex things that every manufacturer is dealing with, right?
And you had mentioned technology. So, real quick, you know, every time I go to a manufacturer, they feel pressured, they feel fear to engage in investing in technology. And that doesn't really move the needle with them. What moves the needle is talking to another manufacturer who's made some kind of investment and can look them in the face and say, "Hey, this is the kind of ROI that we're seeing based on this investment," right? And so those work streams that we've helped develop around ManuFuture again are an opportunity for that peer-to-peer sharing and that networking.
So, in this case peer-to-peer sharing is another ingredient to a manufacturing ecosystem on top of all the other things we've discussed. Matt, what would you add to that?
Yeah, so from our standpoint and how we view it, and we helped Manufacturing Works bring this to the region, is that again, we're a public university and what's very unique about Cleveland State is that we're homegrown students. They're all local. They're very proud Clevelanders. They come from the surrounding region.
It's like 80% like low... Is 80% commuter? 80% local? I'm trying to remember what the exact stat was.
Local. They come from the region and they stay within the region. So, I got to go back to that phrase, the talent pipeline. What better place to look for that engineering pipeline than a place you know that the students are proud to be where they're from and they're willing to stay.
But as a public university, we create that convening space for ManuFuture. So, while we are meeting and discussing at some points weekly with these groups about specific topics, every 6 months, and I wish that was more often, but every 6 months we meet in person in a large group down at the Advanced Manufacturing Center. So, that's where the ideas really start flowing, start collaborating and again, they're in the backyard of an innovative public university focusing on these manufacturing challenges. So, it was the perfect fit alongside Manufacturing Works to bring ManuFuture to the region.
And can I just real quick add that CSU specifically, I mean the inputs from the beginning when you think about awareness versus adoption, the role that they play is so key. The role that you guys play with the TransAm Center is so key in filling out that pipeline, in moving companies in a comfortable way towards that technology adoption. So,
So, I'm going to do a little recap on my end and then I kind of want to hear from each of you and we'll go down the line. Kyle, we'll start with you and then we'll roll down to you, Matt. But, you know, from what I'm hearing, names aside, right? Cuz, you know, anyone that's interested, I'll have all that in the show notes afterwards and things like that to look up. But, the ingredients you've talked about are, you know, education, real-world manufacturing education, and also an institution where you're keeping a lot of talent local versus going outside of the region. You have peer-to-peer networking where manufacturers can help other manufacturers solve their problems. You have that built up into a formal organization as well.
Those are a couple of the big ones I've captured, but to recap for our audience, maybe if you could each share one of the things that you feel is a secret ingredient to your manufacturing ecosystem. Kyle, if we can start with you and then go down the line. Could be a recap of something we've already said, but just want to wrap this part up before we get into an example of how this is playing out at a real manufacturer.
Yeah, I touched on this a little bit before, but I'll reiterate, the level of collaboration here is tremendous. I truly can say that I don't think we would have gotten to this point had it not been for everybody rallying around a specific initiative like this.
And is it because you have all these different programs and institutions that that collaboration is able to happen? Cuz I know a lot of other regions would like to do that, but, you know, some of them struggle to get that off the ground.
Yeah, definitely having a strong foundation helps. Moving forward, I think that helps show the confidence that the federal government has in being able to put some taxpayer dollars into this ecosystem here, knowing that those dollars will be used for good and stewarded well.
Yeah, so collaboration with all these programs brings the opportunity to get the attention of federal dollars. That's number one. Adam, what would you add to this as an ingredient?
I think Kyle stole mine. I would say
I thought that was going to happen. I knew he was going to get harder, so
I'll take it from a different direction though. What's unique about Northeast Ohio? And I ask myself this all the time, and every time I meet with, you know, somebody from the federal government or I'm meeting with a manufacturer, it is always the same. It's this willingness to share. It's the willingness for the sum to be greater than the parts. It's this idea that Northeast Ohio is a special place and that if we collaborate, we will find those types of solutions.
And so I think, you know, we've got what? 7,700 manufacturers in Northeast Ohio. And I think about the opportunity. What's the opportunity of 7,700? That kind of density armed with additional assets, the kinds of institutions like CSU, right? Lorain County Community College. We've got these great assets around us. And what's different is that in other areas, they may have assets, they may have manufacturers, but it's fragmented. And so the collaboration that's unique to the identity of Northeast Ohio is the thing that I think is critical. It's the thing that I always come back to and the thing that I think creates such vibrancy here in this area. So, thanks. It's a great question.
Awesome. And then Matt, you get to be the ringer here and I'm sure they've stolen both of your answers so far, but what else you got?
Yeah, so mine is that the secret ingredient here is certainly... I have two actually, so they didn't steal them. Is history and I think location. So, just our setting from up here, what we're looking at is a river that cargo ships come in and go to the steel mill right down the way, right? That was all created and brought up over 100 years ago. That's how we got to 7,700 manufacturers, right? So, the density, the pride of the area is here, and then again location-wise, there's also a reason why we're on the uptick in population and we have a very great place to live. And so, if you're not a manufacturer from this area, take a look because there's just a lot here. We've laid it out, but the history just goes such a long way and it's why we're having this conversation now.
So, history, location, collaboration. Adam, what's the one word you put to yours, if I just recap?
I mean, I would say it is density, collaboration, a spirit to bring parts together to a whole.
Yeah. Now, you mentioned population is on the rise there, Matt. We should probably double down on that cuz I think that's another area a lot of spots are struggling with right now. What in addition to manufacturing do you feel is aiding that? And feel free just to gush on Cleveland and Northeast Ohio a little bit. Like, what is so great that people are moving here?
Is that towards me? So, I spent 5 years away from this area. I'm a Northeast Ohio born and bred, but I spent time in a big city in Chicago, Midwest. So, I really enjoyed it there. But having moved back 5 years ago, I'm seeing a lot of the things that made that city as renowned as it is moving into this space, but at a smaller level, and sometimes that's a good thing, right? So, we don't have the same amount of things that Chicago may offer, but we're bringing a lot of that up here. So, I don't know. It's
Specifically, what are some of those? Like, are we talking like
Have you been to our restaurants? Have you been to many of our restaurants? I mean, we're in one now. I don't know. I'm biased towards the city, obviously, but I still stay... I live a mile away from downtown. So, I still stay very embedded in all the activities that are going on, but in our downtown area we have our Playhouse Square. We have three professional sports teams. We have renowned universities on the east side and surrounding community colleges. I mean, do I have more time? Do we all have more time to go on about
No, so it's the energy of the city is what I'm hearing, right? Like I mean, I was at Slyman's for the first time ever. My buddy Anthony, who I worked with in Houston, is hiding in the back there, but he's been raving about that sandwich for over a decade. So, anytime I go somewhere for the first time, I get it as simple as possible. Corned beef, rye bread, and in this case stadium mustard because there's no better mustard in the world. I always have some in my fridge. And I live in Milwaukee.
I think that might be the right conclusion for this segment of the interview. So, hey gentlemen, thank you so much for getting us off on such a strong foot here. Everyone give them a round of applause.
Thank you. Thank you, Chris.
Thank you all. Next up, we've got Mike and Greg joining us on stage. So, we're going to do a quick hot swap of our panelists.
All right, I'm finally going to... I haven't gotten to take a sip this entire interview so far. So, while I do that, can you each introduce... How would you introduce what you do and what your company does as if you're having a beer with someone? So, Greg, maybe you kick us off on that.
You bet you. Yeah, hi. I'm Greg Schumacher. I'm the director of manufacturing for Novagard Solutions. We are a manufacturer of silicone adhesives and sealants, some really cool chemistry, and PVC foam, right? And some silicone greases. We do a little bit of everything. It's a lot of fun. So I run that shop and we have some challenges that we were trying to fix, and Mike here helped me.
Yeah. And like I said, I promised a real-world example. All the things we just talked about, we're going to bring it together in terms of showing how this impacts a real manufacturer like the one you're working with, Greg. But, Mike, he set you up there, you know, how did you help him out? What do you do? How do you describe what you do as if you're having a drink?
So, I work with manufacturers. I've been around a long time. I primarily help manufacturers and solution providers figure out how to find value with each other. And so, I work with Adam and the team at Manufacturing Works under a program we call Manufacturing Excellence. So, I always tell everybody, whoever in the business has to run the plant better to run the business better, those are my peeps. Those are people I want to talk to. So, work with Matt with ManuFuture and with Kyle with the NSF and with Sophia with the Smart Manufacturing Cluster. But primarily trying to help manufacturers figure out the role and the value and the fit of modern technologies.
Well, let's go back to another over-a-drink question. So, Greg, you were talking about how you've been doing some of this at your organization. What does technology implementation look like at your organization? What does taking action look like at your organization to bring about a modern manufacturing facility? We'll get into a little more of the details in a bit, but what's your 2-minute answer to that?
Yeah, great question. So, originally, it looked like, hey, here's a new technology, get it, do it now. And that doesn't necessarily work if your team is not ready for it. So, through the Smart Manufacturing Roadmap process, we had the opportunity to really look at that and say what matters first before you implement the technology. You got to be ready for it. And that's what we learned, I think, in that process.
Okay, so you brought up the Smart Manufacturing Roadmap. So, in order to define that, I think it makes sense that you take us through that answer. Like, again, as if you're at the bar, how do you answer that in simple terms? Because CESMII is a big acronym, so let's bring it down to general terms.
Yeah, so simply stated, I think we're all learning how to be digital, personally, professionally. And so, everybody needs a language to figure out what technology means for them. And so, CESMII is the Smart Manufacturing Institute. It's the national authority on smart manufacturing. So, if anybody's going to define what it is, it's them. So, we've adopted their approach, their language, their tool set. And we are essentially building a community of practice of local manufacturers that are trying to figure out what that language is. Greg and his team is one example of that. We have a dozen or more that are actively in the process. And then, through ManuFuture and the other work that we do, we have dozens and dozens of others that will, at some point, if it makes sense for them.
So, Greg, what was the fundamental goal of... you know, you mentioned you didn't just start throwing technology at it, you took a step back. What did you decide you wanted smart manufacturing to achieve for your business? What does it look like for Novagard?
Yeah, well, originally, I didn't know what that meant, right? So, I was tasked with digitizing the plant, becoming more technology-based. But, some of the changes felt rushed and forced. And a number of them we adopted without understanding what we were doing, and did not fully realize that value. ROI in the toilet, right? So, smart manufacturing helped us step back, like you said, right? And think about how we really want to make this work. We need to get ready for this technology. So, it helped us build that roadmap to get there.
Well, and we should all recognize the fact that this is a company that is forward-looking. They were not sitting around on their hands going, "Oh, you know, who can come and help me?" They were running fast. Their leadership is strong. They're always looking to move forward. And then Greg's in a spot where I meet people all the time, they're like, "I have to figure out what Industry 4.0 means. I'm the person that's responsible for figuring out what digital transformation means, or smart manufacturing." It's like, "How the heck do I do that?" And it's not a one-person responsibility. So, the process ends up engaging the entire organization top to bottom, you know, across all the different business functions, and provides a platform for having the right conversations so that you can find out, you know, how to answer the questions for Greg of what the heck does all this stuff mean for our business, cuz it involves a whole lot of other people than just Greg.
Let's paint this picture in terms of what happens on a day-to-day basis. Like, what does it look like? Tell us about a day in your operation now versus before this was implemented. I'd love to hear what smart manufacturing looks like in practice.
Yeah, that's fun. Okay. Previously, I think it was go, go, go. 20 different priorities, all equally important, apparently. And with the Smart Manufacturing Roadmap in place, I want to break it down for you. Probably what we learned was the most important piece of it, which will help you understand this transformation. So, what I can take away from the Smart Manufacturing Roadmap for Novagard: we learned that it's people first, process strong, technology enabled. You can buy the technology, but if your people aren't ready and your processes aren't in place, are you really going to get the most out of that technology?
So, we took that learning and we have focused on our people first, right? So, we are working on training. We are trying to get good people from the ELITE program at CSU, right? We connect with ManuFuture and we build our processes. We work with MAGNET, right? Another local organization that's really, really helpful, to build our processes so that when we put technology in, we're ready for it, we do it right, and it adds value. So, today things move a lot smoother.
I would say before they did the roadmap, Greg didn't get invited to come to things like this. So, we keep pulling him up on stage every chance we get as an example. But yeah, so I would also add that, you know, we talk about smart manufacturing like a thing, like a destination, right? And it's really just a tool for the leaders to lead, right? And that's what they're doing. So, I find it hard to sit next to someone who's doing this and leading and take any sort of credit for what we're doing, right? Because it's really a tool set, a language, again, a community of practice, where we can
share, learn together, those sorts of things. And then they're the ones that own it and drive it. And then back to the ecosystem conversation that we had previously, once you have a company that knows where they are and knows where they're going and knows what they want to do, it's a lot easier to engage the partners. You understand what the talent needs are, you understand what the technology needs are, you understand where your gaps are from an implementation perspective, from an architecture perspective, you know, any of that kind of stuff. So, it makes it a lot easier for us to support them with where they're going and then pull the right resources in to support them.
So, you've highlighted that, I mean, if I'm hearing you right, the day-to-day for your people is less stressful now. They know what their priority is. I mean, do they just have more visibility to what's working on the floor, what's not? Are those fair things to say, like there's less guessing? Is that part of it?
Yeah, absolutely. So, a big part of it is connected workers. And so, like Mike says, the language of CESMII, when you go through this process, you also break down and you make language for your company. So, you know, those taglines, those things that people remember: people first, process strong, technology enabled. They remember that. There's another one, the team working on data-driven processes, we called it Data Unleashed, right? And we have unleashed data upon Novagard with the help of partners from Sotivity and things like that. Like, we have connected our PLCs and that data real-time in engineers' hands and operations' hands. We have unleashed the data. We are making decisions faster, smarter, with the right information.
So, one other thing I want to understand that I think folks listening outside of this region can also learn from you is you implemented this in kind of like an absurdly quick period of time, and it wasn't like a... Let's put it this way. It might not have been as expensive as people would have thought it would have been as well. It then a reasonable investment, let's call it that. Tell us a bit more about that.
Yeah, okay, fun. If you know Novagard, you might know Sarah Nash, the owner of our company. Sarah Nash's superpower is creating pressure. She wants everything done in half the amount of time you think it can be done. And she gets it. So, with the smart manufacturing roadmap, our consultant who helped us with that said, you know, normally these take about 12 weeks. Most companies I see take, you know, a couple of months. And Sarah says, "No. I got to have that in 6 weeks. We got to do this now. We can't afford not to." So, we did. How did we do that? Right? That was a lot of wrangling of all the organization, right? Like Mike said, everybody, it wasn't just me, right? We had to set up a team of people to lead it, directors, VPs in the organization, and we got it done. And you asked about the cost, right? So,
You don't need to share specific numbers if you can't. That's
I can't. I will share a very specific number. The cost to Novagard was exactly $0. Right? Because Mike was able to step in and help and connect us with Tri-C as a grant for a certain number of... Well, I don't know how much longer this grant is going to last, but there was a certain number of manufacturers that they could help, and they fully funded the entire program. So, it cost Novagard exactly nothing, which is pretty good.
I'm glad you had a leader that took that as an opportunity to put pressure and be like, "We're doing this, come hell or high water."
Now, one thing I'd like to understand then is what can folks learn from this so we can have more stories like Novagard across the country. And maybe the right spot to start is here in Cleveland, 'cause Mike, you mentioned earlier on, you know, there are a dozen or so other companies that are doing this right now, and I've got to think that community is one of the aspects that helps move this forward.
Yeah, absolutely. I guess a couple of points. One, this is a standardized tool set. It's been taught all around the country. He mentioned working with a roadmap professional. There's a hundred people in the country that have been certified on this tool set. So, they're all across the country. They're accessible, using the same tool set. It's designed to be a low-cost, low-touch, not a consulting project. It's really an education project, so they're teaching the tools to the manufacturers. That's something that we can come along and teach as well, and we can support, and we can use that same language. So, you know, if you're not in Northeast Ohio, you can have access and support for this using the same approach and the same tool set, no matter where you are. And then if you are in another region and you want to support your local manufacturing base, we are happy to talk with people about what we're doing to, you know, again, build community around these folks. I will also say that a company that is now about halfway through their process started and then never really started, and then they couldn't really get ahead of this priority and that priority. And then there was a plant tour where we went
Call him.
Yeah, that's what... Well, almost the same thing happened. We went on a plant tour with a company that had gone through, and they had their roadmap on the wall. And so, we go walking for the plant tour, and they started the tour and they pointed to it. And then the CFO of another company, who had already said he wanted to do it, saw it on the wall and said, "Oh man, I need to do that." And the team that did it on site just chastised him right on the spot. I was like, "What are you waiting for?" But that peer-to-peer was so much more value than anything, and more valuable than anything I can say or you can say, or CESMII can say. And so it really is important to have Sarah. That's why I joked earlier that we pull him up on stage every chance we get, because these are the folks that manufacturers want to hear from.
So, having vehicles for enabling that peer-to-peer problem-solving, as someone that doesn't live here in Northeast Ohio, is one of my takeaways as to one of the big things you're doing right here that other manufacturers can learn a ton from. All right, let's give it up for Greg and Mike.
We got one more round of guests coming to the stage. How are we feeling about this so far? Do we like this storyline? Okay, getting some claps. The goal of this show is and will always be to talk about this as if you're having a drink with someone, right? And I want to make sure we're accomplishing that as we try to simplify, you know, what smart manufacturing looks like, what implementation looks like as well. So, hey, give it up for Jillian and Jonathan, who just joined us on stage. They're from CESMII.
And this is kind of the wrap-up portion of our conversation. So, stick around. Bar's still open until 8:00. We've got merch in the back if you want to get some truly American-made shirts. I wasn't going to sell merch unless I was putting my money where my mouth was, and they were like American-made. One of them even says it on the front. Nevertheless, I don't want to get off track with my commercial yet. So, Jillian, like in general terms, what's next for this region and tech implementation?
Yeah, so my name is Jillian Copchella. I'm the director of marketing at CESMII. These guys teed this conversation up perfectly. I feel very fortunate to live in a region that is so put together. Makes talking about it a lot easier. But from a national scale, we're hoping to implement things like this across the nation. So, CESMII is putting together tools and workflows and processes to make things easier for other locations to be able to do things just like this, and get the right people connected to the right manufacturers to make it happen.
Jillian, out of curiosity, if you can share this, are there other regions that you'd want to give a shout-out to, that you're like, "Gosh, we've been networking with this region. We've been doing projects in this area"? 'Cause it'd be really cool if some folks listening to this after the fact, like, hear their area of the country mentioned. That might get them to kickstart and be like, "Oh, shoot. I'm not part of that conversation. I live in this part of the country." Are there others that you can highlight?
Yeah, I've got two that come to mind. So, we've got Sherry McCleary out of the Digital Foundry, New Kensington. They are the Penn State branch. They're actually one of our innovation centers. They're doing a great job. They've done a number of roadmaps themselves, and they are a really big advocate. We also
Make its way over to Pittsburgh also? Like, okay.
Pretty close. And then RPI, so Rensselaer Polytechnic. They're actually the organization that helps train all these certified professionals. So, they have a really good network up there. And then we've also got a big area out in California, Los Angeles area, where we're starting to grow. And I'd say the last one, which is a little unassuming, but Maryland, the Maryland MEP is very involved in this process, and they're doing a really great job of getting these roadmaps kind of started.
All right, so a shout-out to Western Pennsylvania, Maryland, Los Angeles area. What was the last one?
RPI, Rochester, New York.
RPI, Rochester, where we're going tomorrow with Manufacturing Happy Hour. What a coincidence. All right. Well, one thing I want to do, you know, in the spirit of live shows and things like that, we usually try to keep it a little higher level in some of our conversations when we do these. But Jonathan, is there anything we've missed from like a tech implementation standpoint, or something that you'd want to double down on as a, hey, if you're thinking about taking your manufacturing operation to the next level, digitizing, bringing it into the future, engaging your people, is there something we've missed today or something you'd want to add or double down on?
Thanks. I'm Jonathan Wise. I'm the chief technology architect at CESMII. So, I get permission to nerd out. I fully agree with Greg. Technology is an enabler. It's a means to an end. It is not the end. Just buying technology isn't going to solve your problems. You have to figure out what problems you're trying to solve and then leverage technology as a tool. But, across the 50-some-odd projects that CESMII's funded, the manufacturers around the nation that I'm deeply engaged with, we've kind of come up with three technology imperatives that you need to consider as you're deploying technology to solve your problems. So, the first is that manufacturing data is generally a mess. It's garbage. So, our imperative number one is to learn the discipline of modeling your data and moving the data sources that you have towards those models. The models serve the business problem that you're trying to solve. The second sounds like it, but it's actually different: contextualize your data. So, just having standards for what your data looks like is a good start, but you need to know where the data is coming from, what it means as it moves, what that data is related to. So, the second imperative is model your data, contextualize your data. The third then is make your data accessible. There is no one technology solution that is going to solve all of your problems. You are going to build what we would call a heterogeneous architecture. You are going to end up with architectures that are made up of different pieces of technology, and they need to be able to work together. We call that interoperability. It's a deep passion for CESMII. When we engage with the vendor community, that's like our leading message: how do you interoperate with other solutions? We have for the past 18 months been working on an interoperability solution called I3X, which is the common programmers interface that these contextual information sources can interact on. And starting at the end of April, we have an information modeling course that we offer to the community to help with kind of thinking through those first two imperatives. How do you get manufacturing data ready to help you solve business problems?
I love it. So, quick summary. So, interoperability, that was one of the big topics. What were the others, just for the quick recap here at the end?
Model your data.
Model your data.
Contextualize your data.
Contextualize.
Make sure the surfaces are interoperable.
Make sure the surfaces are interoperable.
I think we need a whole 'nother episode for that, though.
Well, exactly. You know, I'll take you behind the scenes a little bit. About a quarter of the Manufacturing Happy Hour audience is engineers and engineering management. So, I always like to make sure we're mixing in some of the technical aspects for that portion of the crew. So, let's end our live podcast, though, with something simple. We were just talking about the restaurants. We were talking about how Cleveland's on the up and up. I was raving about my corned beef sandwich from Slyman's earlier. I want you to each highlight something that you love about Northeast Ohio. Does not need to be manufacturing related, but these shows are as much about celebrating the region as it is about celebrating what manufacturing means to this region. So, I like that I always try to direct my questions to one of the two. You're staring at one another, like, who's going to go first? So, Jillian just volunteered to go first.
Okay. So, I don't get out of the house too much, but when I do, there's a lot of new restaurants under the Hangry brand corporation, and my favorite is Jolene's.
Like Hangry, like when you get hungry and you get hangry? That's a great name for a restaurant.
Look them up. They're great. A friend of mine actually owns them, but they have a Jolene's that's on East 4th. It's a live country band music bar. It's really fun. I think they have live music every weekend, and it feels like you're in Nashville, but you're not. And I would recommend that, for sure.
All right. Restaurants from the Hangry group. Jonathan, what do you got?
I don't know if I get booed out of a brewery for recommending another brewery. This place
Hey, shout-out to Collision.
is awesome. Thank you.
Before you shout out another brewery, let's talk about how great the view is from this room tonight. I mean, you're staring at us right now. We're looking at that beautiful blue bridge out there. I mean, this is a primo location.
And I very much enjoyed the beer.
And Jillian was raving about the Brussels sprouts the second I told her, like, "Hey, we're doing this event." So, and I got to say, shout-out to the Cleveland beer scene. I mean, Ohio... I used to do more beer podcasts and things like that. And every time I went to the Great American Beer Festival, anytime an Ohio brewery would win, they'd bring up the Ohio state flag. Probably one of the better state flags, if I'm being objectively honest. Like, it's pretty cool looking. It's a unique shape, right? So, but anyway, go ahead and shout out another brewery now that you
That's my shout-out. Amazing craft brewery scene here. This place is awesome. Please also check out a CESMII alum's brewery in Geauga County, 11 3 Brewing. So, Dave worked for me for years solving smart manufacturing problems, and decided he wanted to do it himself and opened his own brewery. So, that's my shout-out.
Also, shout-out to John tonight, who I've finally met after being connected to for all these years. Longtime Great Lakes Brewing individual as well. So, hey, the beer scene is well represented here. With that, we're going to wrap up tonight's podcast. This party isn't over yet. We're here till 8:00, so hang out, ask any of our panelists questions. We're going to end the way we always do
With our sign-out: Stay innovative, stay thirsty. Cheers, everyone. Cheers to Cleveland. Cheers to Northeast Ohio. Thanks for being here tonight.
[applause]
I'll be around. Snag a T-shirt before you get out of here. Cheers, folks.
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