How OSARO Scaled Robotic Piece-Picking by Growing Slowly on Purpose
Manufacturing Happy Hour
In this episode of Manufacturing Happy Hour, recorded in the vinyl listening lounge at Trillium Brewing in Boston's Seaport District, the host talks with Adi Dalvi, VP of Sales at OSARO, about warehouse automation and "calculated growth." The central question is how a robotics company avoids rushing an immature product into customer operations, and what that restraint means for choosing customers, raising money, and deciding when to market. Adi's position is that OSARO waited until it had a product that could be deployed and scaled, then built outward from there. The conversation also covers what founders from different backgrounds bring to a startup.
What OSARO Does, in Plain Terms
The host asked Adi to describe OSARO the way they would over a beer. Adi said they have worked in warehouse automation companies for close to ten years and called OSARO one of the most unique of them. Their short version: OSARO has developed vision software and machine learning, which they described as a component of artificial intelligence, and integrates it with articulating-arm robots "to give them hand-eye coordination" so they can pick packages and items in a warehouse.
Calculated Growth: Not Deploying a Research Project
Adi gave a timeline. OSARO was founded in 2015 by co-founders Derek and MK. It came out of stealth around 2016–2017 and had its first deployment around 2019. Adi calls this calculated growth because the founders wanted a deployable product before putting anything on a customer site. In their view, you don't want to deploy a research project into warehouses where customers are fulfilling real orders for their own customers. The company took the time it needed to make the technology reliable enough for production.
Adi says that from roughly 2019–2020 to now, OSARO has reached a product that is easy to deploy and also scalable, which they consider essential in this industry.
Startup or Growth Company?
After a conversation with the host the night before, Adi decided OSARO is no longer really a startup. After almost ten years in business, they would call it an "early stage growth company" at an inflection point. Borrowing from the book Crossing the Chasm, they said the company is about to cross that chasm and scale.
The host noted that ten-year-old companies aren't usually thought of as startups. Adi replied that getting a product right takes a long time. They also stressed that OSARO has stayed lean, at about 45 to 50 people, and intends to stay that way to conserve runway.
Why Companies Rush, and Why Industry Founders Don't
The host asked why companies so often deploy products that are still in the research phase, beyond the pressure of limited funding. Adi's answer centered on OSARO's founders coming from industry. Because they understand the problem, they are trying to solve it rather than pushing an existing product into the market. That background also taught them that deploying research projects on customer sites doesn't work well.
Later in the conversation Adi expanded on this. The value of a founder with an industry or venture background, they said, is understanding the market and its actual needs. They called the company fortunate that Derek came from the VC world, where he had looked at these kinds of technologies and where they fit in the market, and knew there was a real business need. The product was then built to meet that need. Adi contrasted this with academic founders, whom they called "awesome" and credited with great technologies. The typical academic path, as Adi describes it, is creating a technology and then asking where to put it, instead of starting from the industry and building for it.
Choosing the Right Early Customers
OSARO was also deliberate about customers. Adi said the company focused on small and medium-sized companies while getting its product into the market. When the host asked for explicit criteria, Adi named three:
- Size. Small and mid-sized companies are the right starting point.
- Team collaboration. These customers have teams willing to work with a newer technology company's team to make the product work.
- Risk profile. They may accept more risk and can decide much faster than large companies.
In Adi's view, a customer with this profile is more likely to do business with a startup. Now that the product has been proven in production environments, OSARO feels ready to pursue "the larger whales."
Cutting Your Teeth: The Lab and Integrator Partners
On what it took to make the technology ready for larger customers, Adi pointed first to the lab. Downstairs in OSARO's Bay Area office is a 15,000-square-foot robot "playroom" with shelves holding thousands of SKUs the company has tested over the years. The second piece was finding good integrator partners early, who let OSARO put its product on their floors and took a chance on it. Testing against the actual products that would be picked and placed is what Adi sees as making a system robust enough to move from a very early company to one that can scale.
Extending Runway While You Get It Right
The host asked how a company survives financially while perfecting its product. Adi suggested building "gate checks" into the process so current and potential investors can see progress, and said OSARO does this well. They added, while admitting it's a side of the business they know less well, that founders must be selective about where investment money comes from. Just as you seek a partnership with customers, you need a partnership with investors who have faith you can make it work. Case studies from deployments also go a long way in the industry.
Getting Case Studies: Trade for Them
The host said many companies can't get the case studies they want because customers decline. Adi described a tactic from a former boss's rule: "Don't give anything to the customer without getting something in return." First contracts involve a lot of give and take. So Adi negotiates terms where, if OSARO grants a price reduction or takes on more contractual risk, the customer agrees to give a testimonial.
The host, admitting their bias as a podcaster, suggested going further. Add a clause committing the customer to future storytelling opportunities as well, since many customers give one testimonial and then stop participating. They joked this might be the first personal plug in the podcast's history.
Four Founder Personas
The host proposed a game: name the strength each of four backgrounds brings to a startup.
Industry. Adi said industry experience means understanding the components a system needs. As an example, they described co-founder MK, who knows vision and software code very well. That let MK pair the right camera with the system while knowing it needed to be low cost so customers could buy it. Adi said it "all boils down to cost." The host added that people from large organizations understand how those organizations make decisions and how slowly. Startup people, the host said, often underestimate that bureaucracy and may think a deal is nearly closed when they've only finished "step one of five of the vendor approval process."
Startups. Adi, calling themselves something of a "career startup guy," described grit: never giving up, doing everything possible to avoid a "no," and using very few resources effectively. The host added that small startup teams, if hired well, tend to be deeply committed.
Venture capital. Someone who has sat in the VC chair has seen many competing technologies, Adi said, and knows what each does well and poorly. That gives insider knowledge of what the best product needs to include.
Academia. After a detour into Pittsburgh breweries (below), Adi called academics "the backbone of tech." Many of these ideas come out of Carnegie Mellon, MIT, and Stanford, and the open question is how to turn them into viable businesses. Adi spent eight years in Pittsburgh working for Seegrid, which grew out of work by Hans Moravec, one of Carnegie Mellon's lead roboticists, as an example of an academically rooted company that has done well. The host added that anchor institutions matter because they do longer-term research. Even when academics don't start companies themselves, founders carry practical applications from universities into the field.
Adi concluded that everyone has a place. OSARO includes academics, business people, interns, and software engineering graduates, and they said a business needs all of them.
A Brewery Interlude
Mid-game, Adi asked which Pittsburgh breweries the host had visited. The host listed Grist House, Dancing Gnome, the revived Pittsburgh Brewing Company (maker of Iron City and I.C. Light), and Cinderlands. Adi called Grist House their favorite. They and their then-fiancée had considered getting married there, but the in-laws objected because the grounds were still gravel. Adi also recommended Church Brew Works, a brewery inside a former Catholic church, and invited the host to breweries in Greenville, South Carolina. The episode's opening likewise recommended Trillium and Row 34 in Seaport.
Growth With Little Marketing: From a Niche Task to a Full System
The host noted that OSARO grew without much marketing until recently, which contradicts the common advice that "if you build it, they will come" doesn't work. Adi tied this back to focus. OSARO concentrated on getting the piece-picking technology right and then on integrating it with other warehouse technologies to form a holistic system.
Their example: picking apparel and random items that arrive in a tote and placing them into an autobagger. Adi admitted it "might not be the sexiest thing in the world" and is a simple task. But combining the autobagging equipment with OSARO's picking makes a complete deployable system. The customer no longer needs manual labor for that step and can move those workers to higher-value tasks.
The host restated this as starting with a niche solution that had to be perfected, then building a fuller system around it, which is more marketable. Adi agreed and gave examples of how OSARO now pitches:
- If a facility has autobaggers, OSARO can pair its technology with them.
- If it has an ASRS, OSARO can place a robot at the ASRS pick port.
- If it has AMRs carrying single or few items, OSARO can pick those items and place them onto the AMRs.
The point, Adi said, is that these technologies aren't fragmented. You have to look at a facility's full process, not one small piece.
Was Marketing Late?
Asked honestly whether OSARO should have marketed earlier, Adi said previous marketing was probably "just enough" for the company's stage. Now OSARO has several production installations across the United States and Asia, plus products combining several technologies. So the company is "hitting the market really hard" with video content, because it has things to show.
Advice for Balancing Customers, Product, and Storytelling
The host asked how startups should balance landing customers, getting the product right, and telling their story. Adi described a sequence:
- Understand the need in the market.
- Define your target market and customer list, for example 3PLs, retail, e-commerce, or parcel.
- Develop the product until it is mature enough to deploy.
- Go after those customers.
- Pour fuel on the fire with marketing.
- Scale.
The host pointed out the customer-centric thread running through all of it, and Adi agreed. Adi said they couldn't say which part matters most and considers them equally important across a company's life cycle.
Wildcard: Sports
For the closing wildcard question, Adi chose sports. They are a Detroit fan across the board, including the Tigers, Lions, Pistons, and Red Wings, plus Michigan State. At recording time, they said, the Pistons were in the playoffs and had just beaten the Knicks, the Tigers led the AL Central, and they hoped the Lions might reach the NFC Championship. The host, a St. Louis native and Marquette alum, recounted rivalries with Detroit teams. They then told the story of being in Boston for a conference during the 2019 Stanley Cup Final. Following their own rule that attending a high-stakes away game is a bad bet, since winning has limited upside and losing can ruin your night, they stayed away from the arena. Instead they watched the Blues beat the Bruins in Game 7 at Trillium Brewing, where this episode was recorded.
How Going Independent Changed the Host's Life
Adi turned the last question around and asked how the host's life has changed since starting the podcast on their own. The host acknowledged the usual answers, freedom, flexibility, and autonomy, but chose a different one: time to appreciate small things. One favorite is scouting an unreserved spot in each brewery, like finding the brick backdrop in Trillium's vinyl lounge that shielded the recording from noise. Their advice was to appreciate the little things in whatever you do. Adi noted that the host had also been through a startup journey. The host agreed, calling the podcast a bootstrapped startup with no VC backing, and said they enjoy learning from people on the other side of that path.
We have focused on the smaller to medium-sized companies. They may have a higher risk profile. They can make decisions faster, but they also have teams that will collaborate with your team to make sure the product's working.
This week, we've got Adi Dalvi from OSARO joining Manufacturing Happy Hour. We're talking about warehouse automation, but we're also talking about what calculated growth means to a startup or a high growth company. We discuss what different founders bring to the table. Whether that's someone with an industry background, an academic background. Plus, we get into sports, bar crawls, and more. All this on Manufacturing Happy Hour.
Seeing that we're in the middle of literally like a vinyl listening lounge.
This is a great location.
It's a great location. One might think it's like, "Wow, you're going to do a podcast with background noise?" You better believe we're daring to do a podcast in a vinyl lounge in Trillium Brewing in Boston Seaport District where we are throwing a party after this.
Yes, that is true. There's a few sponsors. We're excited to be one and I have apparently I've been following Joe Fenty on Instagram. I found that out last night after we talked about him and I'm really excited to see the comedy show.
Yeah. No, I thought that might happen with you and a few others, right, where you realize after the fact it's like, "Oh, Joe Fenty is that guy." And for the audience out there, right, for context, he is a comedian that basically spoofs corporate culture and makes fun of a lot of the buzzwords that are within startups and within the industry. So, I thought he was the perfect comedian to have for an event like this. We're out here in Boston. He's based in Boston. So, by the time this airs, that event will be long in the past, but it certainly won't be the last party that Manufacturing Happy Hour throws.
That's right.
And we were getting ready for this. We might as well paint the picture of where we are cuz I feel like a lot of, you know, folks in the industry travel to Boston and specifically Seaport, which is its own little bubble. Yeah. In Boston. But we were getting ready for this podcast at Row 34. 34 last night. I think Row 34. And fun fact, we were eating across the street from where Karen Reed stays.
Yes. Apparently. Yes. Apparently.
A local legend. Infamous local legend. Would that be the way to describe her these days?
Yeah. Boston is a town of many layers to say the least. But, you know, we were drowning ourselves in seafood and crustaceans and monkfish and a pretty good beer and wine list last night as well. So, for the folks out there, if you're ever in Seaport, make sure you hit up Trillium Brewing and Row 34. You will not regret it. Just get a reservation early. So, but we're not here to talk purely about the restaurants. We kind of are, but a little we're here to talk about your story. So, Adi, let's talk about this. You know, I'm interested to hear. Let's first talk about OSARO, right? In Manufacturing Happy Hour fashion, you guys are laser focused on piece-picking in warehouses, but how do you describe it as if you're having a beer with someone?
Yeah. So, if my mom drank beer, which I'm trying to get her into it, she would she still ask me, "What do I do for a living?"
Sure. And so, you know, I've been a part of these companies in warehouse automation for close to 10 years now. OSARO is certainly one of the most unique ones that I've been a part of. And if I were to describe it to my mom over a beer or a friend over a beer, I would tell them that we have developed vision software and machine learning, which is a component of artificial intelligence, and we integrate it with articulating arm robots to give them hand-eye coordination so we can pick your package in the warehouse.
I like it. That was actually a very simple, deliberate description that captured a lot of the finer points without, you know, losing anyone in that process. I like that. Yeah, you're a pro at this audience. It's good to have you here.
And we're going to get into OSARO a little bit today. But we're also going to get, I'd say, even more into OSARO's journey because I feel like that's something that a lot of the folks listening to this can draw a lot of lessons from, because the way you described it last night when I was, you know, face deep in monkfish and squid ink pasta, was that OSARO was very calculated with their growth. And I think that's something that folks, especially folks that listen to startups, can learn from this episode. So, what does that mean, calculated growth? Give us the intro and then I'll get into some specific questions.
Yeah. So, OSARO started 2015. Co-founders Derek and MK, they started the company, came out of stealth in about 2016, 2017, had their first deployment in about 2019, and it was calculated growth because I think what they wanted to do is they wanted to have a deployable product before they actually deployed to a customer site, right. And I think that's really important because you don't want to deploy a research project into your customers' warehouses where they're actually fulfilling orders for their customers.
Yeah. So they took the time that they needed to make sure that the technology was reliable enough to put in a production environment before actually deploying. And I think that was the key.
Yeah. So between 2019, call it 2020, and now, we have a product that is very easily deployable.
Mhm.
But also scalable, which is an extremely important thing in this industry. You know, we talked about what makes you a startup, right, and I was thinking about this last night after our discussion, is I don't think we're a startup anymore. I mean, we've been in this business for call it almost 10 years.
Yeah.
And I would call us an early stage growth company.
Okay.
Where you're no longer sort of the startup. You're at that inflection point where you're crossing the chasm. I don't know if you've ever read that book, but we're about to cross that chasm and scale to the point where, you know, the company's going to go to big places.
I like that you bring up that clarification because I did have some questions about that just in terms of where your trajectory is, kind of, let's say, the runway that startups have, right, because OSARO has been doing this for 10 years. You've been successful doing it and I don't think of a lot of 10-year companies as like a startup per se. It's like you're, but like you said, you're in that growth phase.
Yeah. It takes a long time to get your product right and that's what they did. And the other thing that we've done very well is we've stayed lean. You know, we're a 45-50 person company and we intend to stay lean and you obviously need to do that to conserve some of that runway.
Mhm. Adi, you had mentioned something as we were starting the, you know, calculated growth for startups conversation, in that, you know, you had the time to, you know, kind of develop the solutions so you weren't deploying a research project. You've been around the block with various startups. You've also just seen the ecosystem from the inside for a long time. Why is it, and there might be some obvious answers to this, why is it that companies rush to get the product out there when it's still in the research phase? And I, you know, when it comes to funding and the limited runway folks have, I understand why that's part of it, but is there another deeper reason you see folks try to deploy when it's still too much of a research project?
Yeah. That's a really good question. I think what happens in a lot of companies that are in this space, they... I think OSARO, what they, why one of the reasons why they're unique is because our founders have come from industry.
Yeah. I was going to ask you about that later, but go into it now. It's appropriate that we dive into it.
They've come from industry. So, they understand the problem and they want to solve it. It's not like they have a product and then they want to just like put it out in the marketplace. They're really trying to solve a problem. And I think because they have come from industry, they know that deploying research projects within customer sites is not necessarily going to work all that well.
Yeah. Well, another question I have is it wasn't just the fact that they were in a position where they could, you know, when OSARO was getting started, you weren't deploying the research projects. But also I feel like you were very deliberate about the customers as a company. What does it mean to pick the right customers?
Yeah. So I think, you know, we have sort of focused on the smaller to medium-sized companies, and when you're first getting your products into the marketplace it's important to focus on a lot of those types of companies, and the reason is because they may have a higher risk profile, they can make decisions faster, but they also have teams that will collaborate with your team to make sure the product's working right.
Yeah.
And so, you know, we've done a really good job of finding those customers in our early stages and now we're at the point where we can say, okay, we can go after the larger whales, so to speak, because the product is proven in production environments.
So, you know, in that case, let's summarize this, right? The three criteria for the right customer. What would you say those are? I think you mentioned three right there. I just want to make sure we get them explicitly for the leaders out there that are listening.
Yeah, absolutely. So, again, it's small to medium-sized companies as you're starting up. So, size.
Size. Yep.
It's going to be your customers' teams and the way they're going to work with some of these newer technology companies.
Mh.
And the third one, what was the third one? I'm drawing a blank.
You talked about risk profile.
Risk profile. Yep. So, you know, smaller to medium-sized companies have the ability to maybe make decisions much faster than large whales, right? And so those three things combined, I think, if a company has that kind of profile, they're probably more willing to do business with a startup.
Yeah. You know, one thing I think that's worth asking is, you know, before trying to deploy at scale, the founders of OSARO really cut their teeth. What does cutting your teeth look like when it comes to perfecting the technology, if you will, making sure it's ready for prime time for larger customers, etc.?
Yeah. So, I think a lot of it happens in the lab at your shop. If you go into OSARO's office in the Bay, you walk downstairs where our 15,000 square foot, you know, robot playroom is at.
Mhm.
You see thousands and thousands of different SKUs sitting on the shelves that we've tested with over the years, right? That coupled with finding some good, for us, some good integrator partners in the early stages.
Yeah.
That allow you to kind of put your product on their floor. And then them sort of taking a chance with you. But going through those paces and really testing your product, making sure it's robust with actual products that you're going to pick and place, is going to be very important as you move from, you know, very early company to somebody that can scale.
So on the flip side of this, while you're doing those activities to make sure you have a robust solution, what do you do to extend your runway during that time? Because I think that's where some people would get caught up, right? They're like, "Okay, so I got to get my solution right, but you know, I can't do this forever." So what would be your advice for extending runway?
Yeah. So, I think you've got to have some gate checks in that process where you can show your investors and potential investors, you know, that you are making progress. I think there's companies that do that very well. I think OSARO is certainly one of those. But you also, I think, and this is the side that I might not be as familiar with, but you also have to be calculated with where you're getting your investment dollars.
Yeah.
And so just like you're going to find a partner or a partnership with your customers, you got to find a partnership with your investors that are going to, you know, have the faith that you're going to be able to make this work.
Yeah.
There's that. And then, you know, it's a lot of case studies and things like that with your deployments, which then goes a long way within the industry.
Yeah. What is the secret to, because I feel like this is where I struggle with a lot of companies, like, you know, not everyone can get the case studies that they want. Like, especially as someone that hosts a podcast, you know, I'd like to be more case study centric. They're like, sorry, this customer doesn't want to do a case study. I'm like, well, why? They're a customer of yours. They should be excited to do a case...
There's so many customers out there that are using such great technology, from AGVs to, you know, pick and place robots, to now you're seeing drones for quality and inventory inspection, things like that. What I have found to work really well is if you're trying to get a contract with a customer for the first time, there's a lot of give and take on both sides.
Yeah.
And I had a person that I had worked for at one time that says, "Don't give anything to the customer without getting something in return."
Yep. And so I've made an effort to negotiate in contracts that if we give you a price reduction or if we decide to, you know, take on a little bit more risk in this part of the contract, then you have to give us a testimonial.
Yeah, I like that. I'm also going to add something as a podcaster for future things, because I've had companies that are like, we want to get this person, we did a case study, to talk about it more, but it's like they do the testimonial and that's it. Yeah, I would add another clause about, hey, you'll do the testimonial and maybe we'll talk about this in other future opportunities as well, cuz then I think that's a win for everyone. Obviously, this comes very biased as a podcaster, but at the end of the day, that's more avenues to get that story shared than just the testimonial on the website. So,
That's exactly right. Anyway, that was, I think that might have been the first time I threw a personal plug into this podcast before, like literally in the history of the podcast. We got to get back to you because you mentioned something earlier on that I do want to dig into a bit more. You mentioned one of the success factors at OSARO has been the fact that the founders, I'll let you use the word you used earlier, but your founders have come from like VC, startups, a lot of different backgrounds. Tell us the value of that.
It's understanding the market a little bit better and what the need is in the market.
Mhm.
And I think we were really fortunate to have Derek Pritmore come from the VC world because he was looking at these types of technologies.
Yeah.
And sort of where they fit into the marketplace, and just knowing that there was a real business need was probably one of the things that set us apart.
Yeah. Right.
And then developing your product to solve that business need, right? So that's really where the advantage comes from, having some folks come from industry.
Yeah.
Look, people that come from academia are awesome. They've developed some really great technologies, and now, you know, but you know, it's kind of like, I've created this technology, where can I now put it?
Yeah.
It's not looking at the industry and then creating the technology for it.
I have a fun little, I'll call it a game we're going to play, but we're going to pick four personas, and I want to share four personas at startups and like the strength they bring, right? So, you
know, let's say VC, someone that's been with a VC, someone that's been with a startup, someone that's been with a large established company as well as academia. And I can riff with you on this as well too because I've got my own perspectives, but let's start value of industry. We'll start with the easy one. What does that bring to the table?
The value of industry is you understand the products that need to be deployed, call it, within your system. So for example, like MK, one of our co-founders, knows new vision and software code really, really well. Yeah. And so being able to pair the right camera for that system, but also understanding that it needed to be low cost. Okay. So the consumer could purchase it, right? Yep. I think that's probably one of the most important things that, and I think it all boils down to cost. Yeah. Really does boil down to cost.
I'll add one kind of in a different vein. I think coming from industry, particularly large organizations, is they also understand how large organizations make decisions and how long it takes for large organizations to make decisions. Because I think when someone comes from the startup world, which we'll get there next, I think sometimes or oftentimes they underestimate the bureaucracy you have to go through to get something across the finish line, and you can be hoodwinked or a little naive thinking you're almost there when really you've just filled out step one of five of the vendor approval process at that point, for lack of a better word. So that's industry. Startups. What is someone that has that startup experience bring to the table?
So I think the startup experience, and this is probably... I hate to use the term, I'm going to be like a career startup guy, but there's people like that out in the world where they're... This is an area you can speak to confidently because you've done this multiple times. It's just being gritty. It's never giving up. It's doing your best to never get that no. And learning how to use very few resources effectively.
Yep. I would echo the same things. I also look at it as your team, which is probably a smaller team, is typically extremely committed. Like, you know, everyone is all in if you're hiring the right way. You might have been in situations where you've seen maybe that not play out as ideally as I've described it.
Let's talk about the VC side. What is someone that has, let's say they're at a startup now but they've been in the VC chair before, which I guess I can't personally say where I've seen that before, but maybe you've seen that more.
So I think with having a VC background, you've seen a lot of competing technologies. Mhm. And you understand what those technologies are doing well and what they're not doing well. Ooh, that's a great point. Right. So you kind of have this insider knowledge of how to create or what the best product needs to comprise of. Right.
Great answer. Now, let's go to your buddies over on the academic side. What is the strength that academia brings to the table? Because it's funny, I was just in Pittsburgh a while ago, and the ideas coming out of Carnegie Mellon, there's some killer ideas that are getting commercialized coming out of there.
Well, before I answer that question, what breweries did you visit in Pittsburgh? I lived there for eight years.
So, I have a few favorites in Pittsburgh. Grist House is probably my all-time favorite. I've been to Dancing Gnome a couple times. We went there. We went to the newish Pittsburgh Brewing Company a little outside of town that revived the old IC Light and Iron City beer brand. And then it's been on my list for a while and I finally made it there. Is it Cinderlands? Is that Cinderlands? Yeah, those... Strip District. Yep. Those are probably my top four that are out there in Pitt. What about you?
So, Grist House is definitely number one. Mhm. In fact, we liked it so much, my wife and I, we were engaged at the time, and that was on our list of places to get married. Oh, really? But...
It's a beautiful spot. The hillside is right behind it. Like, it's a nice... Just to paint the picture for the folks out there listening, it is a picturesque brewery. It is, but at the time it didn't have pavement. Oh, okay. And we took my in-laws to go see the brewery. They're like, we can't have everybody like hanging out on gravel. Yeah, that's a, you know, that's a fair point. I would accept that argument.
Yeah, I'd say Grist House, Cinderlands, and one of the unique ones, which is, you know, beer, everybody has got their own opinions about how good the beer is, Church Brew Works. I don't know if you went there. That's in a church, right? Yeah. They took an old Catholic church and put a brewery. They're not the... I think there's one of those, it might be in Michigan somewhere. I've been to one like that in Portland, Oregon. Have not been to the one in Pittsburgh. Yeah, it's a unique experience. So, yeah, good spot.
I'm glad we gave everyone like a tour of Seaport in Boston as well as a nice brewery tour of Pittsburgh. People are going to be coming to this for the startup and beer resources in this episode. Well, next time you're in the Carolinas, you got to come visit me in Greenville and I'll take you to the breweries around there. So, I am... When I do a tour of the Southeast, I think Greenville has solidified itself as a tour stop. It's kind of right halfway between Charlotte and Atlanta. So, just a perfect spot to hit more of a mid-market. Greenville is a cool town. Would love to host. Yeah. Okay. So, going back, what do... Yeah. You've been avoiding saying a good thing about the academic guys.
No, the academic guys are the backbone of tech. Yeah, I mean a lot of these ideas and a lot of these technologies have come out of the Carnegie Mellons and the MITs and the Stanfords of the world, and yeah, you know, it's now how to get those ideas to become actual, you know, plausible businesses, is the biggest question. You know, having been in Pittsburgh for eight years and working for Seegrid, it was a company that, you know, was born out of Hans Moravec, who was one of the lead roboticists out of Carnegie Mellon. So, yeah, you know, there's companies out there that have had, you know, their place in their roots that started in academia. Yeah. And have done really well. And so there's a lot of respect to be had to those guys as well.
And the area where I would give kudos to academia is the sheer importance of having a pillar institution or pillar institutions like that as part of the ecosystem, because there is longer term research that takes place there. So maybe it isn't the person in academia that's starting the company, but some of the people starting the companies might be taking a lot of inspiration, I shouldn't even say inspiration, practical applications out of the university and into the field. That's right. So, it is an invaluable part to an ecosystem. The whole point of this segment was obviously to share the different strengths of the different folks that bring startups.
Yeah. And everybody has their place. I mean, look, we've got academics and business people and interns and people coming out of, you know, software engineering programs as a part of Osaro, and you need all those people to make a business successful.
Yeah. No, completely agree. You know, as we wrap up, I want to talk about something else, because I think one thing that was unique about Osaro is a lot of the growth happened, as I understand it, without a lot of marketing behind it. And that almost seems counterintuitive in this day and age where, you know, a lot of people preach to startups, it's not if you build it, they will come, right? So, how did that work in terms of being able to get to where Osaro is today, until more recently, you know, doubling down on some marketing efforts?
Yeah. So, I think we started the conversation off with focus. Yeah. And Osaro had really focused on getting the technology right, but not only getting, call it, the piece-picking technology right, it was integrating it with other technologies within the warehouse. Mhm. Yeah. To make what we're doing a system, you know, like a holistic system. So, yeah, it might not be the sexiest thing in the world, but we're picking apparel and we're picking random items that come to us in a tote and we're placing them into an autobagger. Yeah. Right. Like, it's a really simple task, but we're pairing the autobagging technology with the Osaro picking technology to make it one complete system so that we can deploy that into a customer site. Yeah. Where they no longer need, you know, manual labor to do that work, and they can take that manual labor that they were once using and reallocate it to a more, you know, value-add task within the warehouse.
So my understanding then, as I heard, is that you started with like the very niche solution that needed to be perfected. Yeah. And you've built out the broader, let's say, full-scale system. Yeah. Around it now. Correct. And as a result of that, it's more marketable now. I just want to make sure I'm following that. Exactly. We can market a full system. We can go to a customer and say, "We see autobaggers within your facility." Mhm. And we can pair our technology with them. I get it.
Right. Or you have an ASRS system in your facility. We can put our robot at the pick port of that ASRS system. Oh, you have AMRs in your facility that are transporting individual or few items at a time. We can pick those items and place them on your AMRs. We can integrate those technologies together. Yeah. So they're not fragmented. And I think what it boils down to is you got to look at the full process of a facility and not just one little piece.
Knowing what you know now about marketing, and this might go against kind of your answer a little bit, so I want to hear your honest take on this. Would you have encouraged Osaro to do marketing earlier, or do you think you came in and you all did it at the right time? I think what they did from a marketing perspective previously was probably just enough for where they were in the company's life cycle. Mhm.
But I think now that we have, again, several production installs throughout the United States and Asia, now that we have actual products that marry several pieces of technology together, we're now hitting the market really hard. Yeah. With, you know, video content, and because we actually have things to show.
Fair. All right. I dig that. So, let me ask, this is a good way to wrap this part of the conversation then. What would be your advice to startups that are trying to balance just getting a freaking customer, right? That are trying to balance getting their solution right, and that are also trying to balance the storytelling to get their solution out there. Kind of brings together three of the major things we talked about: the marketing, the product and technology, and then, you know, literally getting customers to the company. What would your advice be to the folks, now that you've been with, you know, pretty much a handful of startups at this stage?
Yeah, that's a good question. I think it starts with understanding what the need is in the marketplace. Mhm. It then is developing your target, you know, your target market, your target list of customers, who you can go after. Is it 3PLs? Is it retail? Is it e-commerce? You know, where do you fit? Is it parcel? And then really developing your product to be mature enough to deploy, going after your customers, pouring fuel on the fire in marketing, and then just scaling. I mean, I know that the answer combines a lot of those together. There's a customer-centric thread through all of it. It is very customer-centric. And I don't know which aspect is more important than the other. I think they're all equally important as you go through your, you know, your company's life cycle.
Yeah. Well, I appreciate you taking us through Osaro's journey, your advice, having been in the startup world for as long as you have. We covered a good amount of ground. Is there anything you wish I would have asked you that didn't come up in this conversation, or any closing items you'd like to highlight, or a call to action completely outside of startups? We've got a couple area direct... this is the wildcard question. This is a wildcard question.
Why don't we talk about sports? You know what? It's surprising how often, and maybe not surprising, that that does come up towards the end of these discussions sometimes. Let's talk about sports. Okay. So, I know you're a Brewers fan. Is that correct? I'm a Cardinals fan, actually. I'm from St. Louis originally. I'm a Bucks fan. Okay. That's my Milwaukee team that had no conflicts of interest with my existing sports franchises. Okay. I'm a Tigers fan. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm a Lions fan. I'm a Pistons fan, a Red Wings fan. So, you're all for Detroit. That makes sense.
I went to Michigan State, so I'm a huge Spartan fan. This is the first time in a long time where the Pistons are pretty good. They're in the playoffs. They beat the Knicks last night. They're going back to Detroit. And hopefully we can make the series 3-3 before we go back to the Garden. That's exciting. The Tigers are first in the AL Central, which hasn't happened in a really long time. The Lions might, you know, actually make it to the NFC Championship this year. I don't know about the Red Wings and the Spartans, but I'll take three out of five. Yeah. What about you?
Well, I'll share a couple things. This is actually a very good personal story, I think, to wrap this interview on. So, the reason I apologize about the Tigers is I know what the Cardinals did to them in 2006. So, yes, they... That is... But the Red Wings made my life pretty miserable in the '90s. There were plenty of times the Blues had our number, too. Yeah, I know. But not enough to get past it in the playoffs. So, the Yzerman slapshot from the blue line in double overtime when Gretzky was on our team, that one still hurts. I'll never forget that. Cardinals are kind of wallowing in mediocrity right now. I don't like to talk about that one much. Michigan State has been a pain in my rear for the times we've run into them. I went to Marquette, so we've run into them in the tournament recently. But I'll end on a positive note for me as a Blues fan.
When the Blues were in the Stanley Cup Finals in 2019, I had to be here in Boston for a conference at the same time games six and seven against the Bruins were going on. Awesome. And one thing I've learned over time is one of the worst investments you can make is going to a high-stakes away game for your team, because the upside of winning is not that high and the downside of losing will make it one of the worst nights of your life. So, I didn't go anywhere near the arena on game seven, but I came here to Trillium Brewing to watch the Blues beat the Boston Bruins in game seven. I was having a great night. I didn't get beat up, which was great. And some tears of happiness were shed. So this is awesome. The Blues have a relatively high-stakes playoff game tonight, so I may or may not be changing my outfit before the comedy night starts here. You should. I think I will, too. I feel like a comedy night, this is the appropriate spot to... It might result in some good heckling. So, we'll go that direction.
But speaking of the comedy night, we got to get to the party. So, I have one question for you. Okay. All right. How has your life changed since you started this and went out on your own?
I mean, there's certainly... trying to think of like a novel answer to this, because of course there's freedom and flexibility and lifestyle and things
like that. I'll share something that's kind of a different spin on that. It gives me time to appreciate the little things that are really cool about running your own business and running a podcast that's predominantly done inside of breweries and bars, right?
One of my favorite little things is when I show up to a place like today at Trillium and I'm trying to look for the right spot to do the podcast, right? Because normally it's not like reserved or anything, right? So, I'm trying to figure out where I'm going to do it on my own. I have to kind of scout out the facility to find like a really cool spot, like, you know, finding this area where it's like, you know what, we got the brick backdrop, like we're right in the middle of the vinyl lounge. We're a little protected from the sound, right? I love that little aspect about it.
So, life has certainly changed in a lot of ways, right? You know, the freedom, the flexibility, the autonomy, all great things, but my advice, hopefully that applies to anyone, is like appreciate the little things in what you do. And that's one of my favorite little things about running.
Well, it sounds like you went through the startup journey as well on your own.
It is. Let's say it's a bootstrap startup is what it is. No VC backing. So, I always like learning from folks that are on the other side of that though. So, with that, Adi, cheers. Thanks so much for being on Manufacturing.
Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it. A lot of fun.
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